Why are so many show jumpers..........

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horsegirl

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men? And is it just me or are most of them pretty rubbish riders on the flat? Not trying to start any arguements just wondering.
 
I think there are more and more women competing at higher levels and we will start to overtake the men soon
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I went to Surrey county show on monday and was watching a few classes and I think I only saw 1 women jumping!
 
I watched the G Billington DVD that came free with Your horse i think. And he admitted that he ''didnt know what dressage is''.
I think they know what they need help with jumping, ie- balance, collection, changes etc -but really thats all they need to do!
I am sure that a lot of dressage riders would balk at riding round a 1.40 course of showjumps!
 
well personally I love my jumping and have had much success but on the flat I am crap!

We need different rythym from dressage sometimes, dressage you push them in a nice even way working from behind, jumping you tend to sit them on their backside and most good horses are very "up front", its whole different world.

However, certain amount of good flatwork has to be established as without it jumpers cannot do their job!
 
I was asking that when i was at the warrington show the other day! There was a massive SJ class with loads of entries (jumps were near enough 5') - geoff billington, billy toomey, keith shaw and a couple of other big names were in the class. I only saw 3 women in the class. These women came 1st, 2nd and 3rd!! So HA! to all the men!!!
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Its like Chefs - when you are younger cooking is a girls thing, so Chefs really need to prove a point when they are older and try much harder to assert their masculinity!
 
I am in Warrington, but didnt go to the show, who won just out of interest?

I jump BSJA and at lower levels you find women are majority, then the higher up the levels the less women. I believe its because men get the sponsors = £££ + Horses.
 
probably get shot down for this......but I think men have more nerve so tend to get to a higher level as they have no sense of self preservation......
 
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I am in Warrington, but didnt go to the show, who won just out of interest?

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Oooh, good question! I didnt know her, so can't remember her name! Dammit, that's gonna annoy me now! I'll go off and have a look!
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Its like Chefs - when you are younger cooking is a girls thing, so Chefs really need to prove a point when they are older and try much harder to assert their masculinity!

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TOTALLY agree with that! I feel if they have got through all the teasing in their younger years etc then they must be really determined!
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I saw that class too!!! I couldn't believe how tiny GB was!!! And the women did put the men to shame - yey!!
 
Please don't shout me down for this.. I think it is to do with girls forming emotional attachments to their ponies and horses when younger. Not wanting to sell or move on, but boys are different. While girls are happy to do all the grooming, feeding and riding the boys like their mounts handed to them ready to go, so don't form the same attachment. Therefore they tend to move onto better horses faster, take rides rather than buy and go through many more horses than the girls. That is not to say this is stereotypcial but I do think it happens.
 
I think you might be right!
Also there is the angle that women dont fancy living out of a suitcase- the international circuit is manic and s/j ers are not at home much!
Women might be wanting to start families!
 
I think you will find that there are more girls than boys in ponies but we women get to late 20's and have kids etc then sort of stay in the background !! the men can travel round the country etc !
 
I would dispute the "rubbish riders on the flat" comment as there are some pretty good male dressage riders out there but I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that, for the most part, men are much more competitive than women. That's not to say ALL women but men generally are more competitive than women. I'm a woman AND very competitive. If I enter any competition for anything, I do not do so unless I know I have a fighting chance of winning, I do not spend money for "experience" or to make up numbers. Like others have said, men are also less likely to form a sentimental attachment and so would be able to move on to other horses as and when necessary.
 
I take exception to the comment that these SJ'ing men are rubbish on the flat
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Just because they don't all go round trying to look pretty doesn't mean they aren't very capable riders. They couldn't achieve half of what they do if they weren't pretty decent. Horses dont' just get themselves to the fences you know
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I was placed in a small open on monday interestingly....the top 3 places were all filled by men
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There are probably several factors that play a part too. The old 'baby' thing and thus not wanting to travel all the time, the issue of physical strength with many of these horses, and then there's the good old competitiveness aspect too
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All that said though...let's not forget that there are 2 women in the world top 4 currently and that 3/4's of the WEG individual finalists were female
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I didn't mean men are rubbish riders on the flat just that some of the SJ seem to be. OVer jumps they look great and obviously they have good seats and control but between jumps or before they start many I've seen bounce around with their arms in the air.= and much worse. Perhaps the women are as bad (worse?) I just haven't seen them!
 
I think that traditionally Show Jumpers have been big heavy german type horses who for a woman are harder to keep all up together and ride properly. They suited the big bold solid built courses.

But the Show Jumper is now changing, you are getting lighter framed more responsive type horses who cope better with the more technical flimsy tracks that are now being built. You don't need to be as strong in your legs etc to ride these and that is why women are once again appearing in greater numbers in international show jumping.
 
name names (how do you do that quote thing)

Was at Warrington too, saw geoff billingtons elbows before him when he was jumping the water jump!!! flailing around like windmills, but you cant take away acheivement.

Also, and goes for both sexes, surely would help the horse out if some folk lost weight sorry if thats off the thred a bit
 
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geoff billington looks awful on the flat although he is a fantastic rider.

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Well I think you've just answered your own question there ! You don't have to be stylish to be good or effective. Geoff rode in an Olympic games so he must be doing something right
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Michael Whitaker is another rider who has a tendency to be 'elbowy' when he rides sometimes, and Ellen Whitaker can be all over the place too. You're judging their riding ability on old fashioned dressage principles, but who is to say the dressage way is the right way ? Sure it might be tidier, but at the risk of being controversial, SJ'ers get a hell of a lot more out of their horses than most dressage riders do and ride them to greater extremes.

Most SJ'ers will say they don't 'do' dressage...but believe me that's just a front. What they are invariably doing is a relatively advanced dressage test interspersed with some pretty big jumps every time they enter the ring
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Yes totally agree, sometimes elbows and legs come into play when needed (used mine on mon) but the flat work ie dressage has to be there in the first place, and alot of the accredited trainers are focusing on that. When do dressage tests start asking to see flying changes?

and dont you see such alot of "pretty" riders having stops or getting eliminated because they're to busy looking good!
 
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When do dressage tests start asking to see flying changes?


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Sorry but have to disagree. Flying changes in a dressage tests are marked for correctness. When showjumping it doesnt matter if the change is 'clean' so long as the horse changes. It is impossible to compare SJ-ing and dressage as they both ask the horse to do completly different things.

Show jumping isnt marked on style and elegance (probably a good job
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) whereas dressage is, it has to be correct. To some degree it doesnt matter how you get a horse over a jump so long as it gets over it. If you watch a dressage rider and a showjumper school they will do it in a completly different way.
 
Going back to the flat work for showjumpers........ For showjumping a top horse will do all the flying changes and be a very balance horse to jump etc etc.
But i think with showjumping its not about looking so stylish/elegant it is about the quick thinking of pushing your seat back or sitting up into a fence etc the skills you need for jumping a big track, not so much looking pretty but obviously not being heavy on a horse.
 
Dont think the women took the first 3 places. Vicky Tulloch won & in great style, I think a lady was 2nd but 3rd 4th & 5th was Keith S, Geoff B & Andy M. Yes apart from a few females I think men are more competitive. With regards to flatwork though trust me, the majority of the showjumpers take it very seriously. Most of them take lessons with Richard Davison, who just has to be the best trainer I have ever seen. Amazing communication skills.
 
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