Why do people not freezemark their horses?

[bailey14]

Apart from the problems with freezemarks taking on grey horses why do people not bother freezemarking their horses?

I just dont understand why people don't feel the need to do this. I have owned six horses now and each one I have had freezemarked within the first 2 to 3 weeks of owning them, yet there are people who have their horses for years and have never contemplated it. Do people seriously believe that a microchip is a good reason not to freezemark?? How can people spend a £1000 on a new saddle or over £120 on a fancy bridle when for £30 - £40 their horses could be freezemarked and safe? Please help me understand. At the risk of getting slaughtered, I do not condemn anyone who has had a horse stolen and not freezemarked but I'm afraid I can't quite find the same level of sympathy as I would for someone that had.

 

[nikicb]

This topic is high in my thoughts at the moment. My bay horse was freezemarked way back (I've had her 28 years). The pony (grey) hasn't been up till now. At the moment he is kept on a busy livery yard, out in the day, in at night. People on the premises 24 hours. Dogs etc. When out he's in a field in the centre of the land and he's a b****r to catch unless you have feed and do it the right way. BUT soon to be moving to my own place which is far more remote and although I'll be around quite a lot I'll be out and about taking kids to school etc. So I'm in a real dilemma. I really hate seeing the feezemarks on the shoulder. I wasn't sure how much of a deterrant microchipping plus signs is. I really think I will have to freezemark, does anyone know if they will still do it under the mane? He's a Welsh Sec A so it's fairly long. Anyway I would rather err on the side of caution, but am interested in seeing the responses you get to this.

 

[fatpiggy]

Hi Millitiff,

Why don't you like seeing the freezemark on the shoulder? My mare has white and self-coloured scars on her side, withers and flank (unfitting rugs and whip marks) - now they are the ones I don't like seeing on her. A freezemark is a sign of careing and is absolutely the best place to mark in order to deter theft as you can't just hide it under a saddle. n ordinary member of the public catching it wouldn't think to take the saddle off, but they could say to the local police that it has this strange lot of numbers and letters on its shoulder.

I'm 100% with Applecart14

 

[Chico Mio]

Because I can't find someone to do it! It would be easier to have mine hot branded on their bums. They are both chipped (it's the law) and passported.

 

[nikicb]

Hi Fatpiggy, you are absolutely right and the more I think about it the more I feel I should get it done. When I only had my mare I didn't think twice about it. Then when I moved to the yard I'm at now a lot of people haven't had it done (which I did think was strange). In terms of where he is at the moment I do feel fairly ok (there's 20 or so horses on the yard, most decent quality jobbies, and he is often the last one in as he won't be caught). In his field there are 5 other ponies who all charge up to you in case you have food, whereas he keeps well out of the way. But with the impending move I think it really will be a necessity as it will just be my lot there. Thanks for helping me to get this straight in my mind.

 

[bailey14]

What do you mean you can't find someone to do it. Whats wrong with FarmKey or Freezemark?

 

[Vikki89]

any reccomendations on who is best between freezemark and farmkey?

 

[Nailed]

Because I dont like them.. I think its barbaric..

Shot me down go on..

But let me jsut say.. if my horse was ever stolen, then thats my fault for not getting her freezebranded and nothing to do with anyone else.

So heaven forbid my horse gets nicked, but I wont come crying..

Lou x

 

[nikicb]

In terms of freezemarking greys, is it the colour of the skin underneath that is the issue or the density of the hair. Milli is a grey section A but was born skewbald so has dark grey patches of skin. But his coat is really dense (not particularly long, but really really thick) even in the summer (he is clipped in the winter anyway so that wouldn't be a problem, or would it?).

Sorry OP for hijacking your post, but hope it's relevant.

 

[Chico Mio]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean you can't find someone to do it. Whats wrong with FarmKey or Freezemark?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I forget to say sometimes, I live in Spain - hence microchipping and passports being the law, enforced and monitored by the government. You also have to be registered as a keeper of horses if they are kept on your premises (or you are not insured) and inform the authorities of any movement in or out of said premises, including births, deaths, sales and thefts.

 

[bailey14]

But it doesn't hurt them, its just a bit of discomfort for a lifetimes protection.

 

[bailey14]

I've used both Farmkey & FM and found they were as good as each other. However each time I've had my horses freezemarked part of the last digit hasn't come out properly so last time on my present horse I asked her to hold down the last iron longer than the others and the result is that the third digit hasn't come through clearly now!!! Can't win. However don't let that put you off, it is really important to get them done, and obviously to mark all rugs with their number.

 

[Elle1085]

I have absolutely no idea where i would go to get it done and seeing as i have a horse who wont have cotton wool near him without a fight never mind anything else i've never thought it was the best thing for him he does have a westphalian brand though

 

[mtj]

tbh, i can only imagine the scene when my dutch warmblood was freezemarked (before i bought him)

he is a sedation case for clipping, and i think this is the most sensible approach for a sensitive horse.

as your horse has "enjoyed" the experience of hot branding - i doubt he will allow a branding iron any where near him unless he is sedated.

the freezemark companies visit you at your yard.

 

[fatpiggy]

I wouldn't ever deliberately inflict pain or suffering on my mare, but I didn't hesitate to be "barbaric". She didn't flinch at all, despite being a highly strung chestnut mare. I do hope your horse doesn't go missing. No doubt you won't come looking for sympathy if it does, but you will come wanting us to help look for it.

 

[Tinkerbee]

I suppose it's a bit like the riding hat debate. People have free will... and just because a horse is freezemarked, doesn't mean it will be recovered if stolen.

 

[Donkeymad]

Freezmark have a 100% recovery rate and I think Farmkey is about 97% - so there is a pretty good chance. I don't understand people saying it ugly/defacing etc. Having had two stolen, and found very quickly - because they were freezemarked I really don't understand objectors. each to his own though

Over the years I have noticed a very high incidence of those done by farmkey needing re-doing.

 

[Elle1085]

[ QUOTE ]
tbh, i can only imagine the scene when my dutch warmblood was freezemarked (before i bought him)

he is a sedation case for clipping, and i think this is the most sensible approach for a sensitive horse.

as your horse has "enjoyed" the experience of hot branding - i doubt he will allow a branding iron any where near him unless he is sedated.

the freezemark companies visit you at your yard.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto sedation for clipping, tbh i can't say it's something that i've ever thought about until now maybe a new ad campaign wouldn't go amiss

 

[Grey_Eventer]

im getting mine done as soons as possible

the other 3 are branded...

 

[Stateside]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I dont like them.. I think its barbaric..

Shot me down go on..

But let me jsut say.. if my horse was ever stolen, then thats my fault for not getting her freezebranded and nothing to do with anyone else.

So heaven forbid my horse gets nicked, but I wont come crying..

Lou x

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here I will NEVER have any horse of mine labeled in such a horrid way.. I have used the brading of the hoof with a post code though.
If a 4inch shield with the numbers inside the sheild was put on the lower quarter like a hanoverian bran then it might change my mind , But no way how they do it now..

 

[competitiondiva]

Whilst not all auctions are monitored for freeze marked horses I see litte appeal to jump to have it done, you have to pay annually to have it on their registers not something you have to pay petlog! So identification is the only thing it provides if the horse is found, which microchipping does in a more acurate way than freeze branding, brands can be altered id chips cannot. Therefore I've always had microchips. That is not to say that I wouldn't have them freeze branded IF ALL auctions/sales were to be monitored for marked horses, but if this happens why can't all horses be scanned for a chip.

Added to that all foals registered after july 1st this year have to be chipped and linked to a passport so I'd imagine all sales in the not too distant future will be scanned.....

 

[Ashgrove]

[ QUOTE ]
you have to pay annually to have it on their registers

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my horse freeze branded with Northern Brand, there is no yearly charge with them

 

[winston44]

after having been a freezemark operator for over 15 years, with both farmkey and freezemark, i am finding this funny to read. everyone is entitled to thier own opinions, but freezemarking is not cruel, just uncomfortable, its abit like putting a bag of frozen peas on your skin, with us humans yes it could cause a burn, but as horses have dense hair compaired to us, what it does is kill the pigment at the root of the hair, hense it growing back white!! it does cause the branded area to swell for a couple of days, and can be sore up to a week, hense not riding the horse for up to this time, every horse is different and will react differently.
and before any one says, "how do you know it doesn't hurt?" i have branded myself quite a few times over the years by accident of course

with grays, appies and coloured horses, and sometime palominos and duns (depending on how light there coats go) you need to actually kill the hair folicule off all together, hense what is called a "bald" mark, which needs to be clipped, as any hair growing over the mark with cover it up.

most operators will not mark under the mane on the neck , reason being is that the neck muscles are allways on the move and it will take longer for the mark to heal, also it is much easier for a horse to rub its neck on a tree and make its neck sore and, again not a good idea for horse/ponies with sweetitch. if pushed, and with permission form "the powers that be" at the office, if the owner signs a decleration, releasing the company of any obligation, they may allows for a mark on the neck to be done, but they dont like it.

i have marked and had my own horses marked, even up to now, and i still believe in it as the best form of identifcation.

with microchips, i am not sure not how many companies the are now in action, but in my day the were at least 4 different companies, and all using 4 different scanners to pick thier own chips up, so unless a market / police stc had all 4 scanners, they could well miss a microchipped animals because the scanner didn;t register that chip because it belonged to a different company, and DONT forget chips are not visable to the naked eye and can migrate, depending on when they were put in.

HOOF BRANDING~ sorry this is my pet hate!! 1st you pay for the branding irons for your postcode,
2nd, then you pay for your farrier to mark your horses hooves.
3rd- turn said horse out in field, let it get nice and muddy and fill the brand in with mud!
4th- get horse in from field, bet you cant find the mark without a dam good scrub!! lol
5th- horse gets stolen - brand can be filed out or worse branded with a solid brand to remove origional brand, more damage to hoof wall
6th- how many plods sorry policeman/ port service people will go into a truck load of horses, be it that the horses are tied up nicely or all crammed in together, and bend down a look at the hooves of all the horses, looking for a brand which is proberly filled with mud, filler or even filled off! i am experienced with horses and differcult ones at that and i wouldn't do that, one sure way to get yourself hurt or poss killed by scared animals!

and 7th- you move house and have to pay for yet another set of branding irons!!

with freezebranding most companies charge a yearly fee for keeping your horse on file. but once your horse is marked, its marked for life, you are covered for remarking if needed for the first year anyway, i am the first to admit i dont bother to register my horses each year, but then i do have the advantage that i know who and where to contact people now.

hope this has helped abit, dont worry if your horse acts up abit, the operators are used to it, and i would say the are more horses that are brilliant when its being done, than those that are not, have food at hand and always stand to the left of the horse, i found the most helpful thing an owner could do was left hand on the rope/reins just below the muzzel, right hand in the crock of the neck, and if the horse wants to move , let it, just keep turning it in a small circle around you both, and above all keep calm or your horse will feel your nervousness and act on it!

if you are very nervous, get a more experienced person to hold your horse for you.

good luck

 

[fatpiggy]

Well said winston44, I'm with you on every single point.

 

[bailey14]

As the OP I would like to say thanks for sharing that with us Winston, that was very interesting. I actually have Farmkey on video marking my horse (I wanted to do a video diary of his first few weeks just for myself) and sometimes I re watch it. I must admit I haven't renewed my freezemark membership thing but I can't see them not helping you if you rang them up if the horse did get stolen and pay for it there and then over teh phone. I think its a brilliant idea, but one thing you have left off Winston which I feel is VERY important is the fact that its a bit pointless marking your horse if you don't mark its rugs too with a bit of paint. AND put signs up. My last job I had access to a laminator, so I went on line made up loads of signs from free signage websites saying these premises are protected by CCTV, and cut and pasted some freezemark style signs and laminated them and went around our fields nailing them up to fences and trees. I think these precautions should be carried out IN ADDITION to freezemarking.

 

[winston44]

thanks guys,
applecarts, totally agree with you re the signs and marking rugs etc, sorry i just covered the main points last night, but forgot to add those points, very well put

 

[Doris68]

The biggest problem my (then 4 yo) chestnut mare had was the extremely frightening noise of the clippers!!! The actual freezebranding did not cause her a problem at all.

Had her son done at around a year old and he didn't even notice anything was happening. He was quite difficult by the way.

It is a VISIBLE DETERRENT!

 

[MagicMelon]

Freezemarking hurts like hell! I had my very first pony done years ago and he absolutely went ballistic (normally a very sane pony), I remember it very well even though it must have been 15 years ago. I'd never put another horse through that.

It looks horrid as well, there's no way in hell you can do it to something used for showing for example. Have you ever seen anything winning HOYS (in fact BEING at HOYS) with a freeze mark?

I like the logic behind marking your horse but I think microchipping would be best and then just displaying big signs saying this everywhere.

 

[competitiondiva]

[ QUOTE ]
with microchips, i am not sure not how many companies the are now in action, but in my day the were at least 4 different companies, and all using 4 different scanners to pick thier own chips up, so unless a market / police stc had all 4 scanners, they could well miss a microchipped animals because the scanner didn;t register that chip because it belonged to a different company, and DONT forget chips are not visable to the naked eye and can migrate, depending on when they were put in.



[/ QUOTE ]

????????

When was that??? I've had horses microchipped since 1994 and all chips since then have come up on all uk scanners. I think you are thinking about chips from abroad some US chips do not come up on uk/european scanners but all UK chips regardless of company show on all UK scanners. With regard to the chip being visible I really don't know what chips you are looking at? The chip is the size of a large grain of rice and is inserted into the muscle so is no way visible! Migration CAN happen in cats and dogs if the chip is not inserted correctly. The chip itself has a coating which binds to the tissues so therefore does not migrate. I've never known an equine chip to migrate. But yes I have known cat/dog ones especially if the cat/dog is stroked roughly around the scruff soon after being chipped and therefore not giving the chip time to bind to the tissues.

I'm not against freeze branding at all, but faced with a chip that doesn't cost annually and a freeze brand that does cost annually (yes I did see the post about northern brand or something and I will look into it thank you for that) when both forms offer the same level of id/security I have always chosen the chip. And DEFRA have also chosen chipping as the most acurate identification method due to the ruling that all horses registered after 1st july this year must be chipped.

 

[winston44]

[ QUOTE ]
Freezemarking hurts like hell! I had my very first pony done years ago and he absolutely went ballistic (normally a very sane pony), I remember it very well even though it must have been 15 years ago. I'd never put another horse through that.

It looks horrid as well, there's no way in hell you can do it to something used for showing for example. Have you ever seen anything winning HOYS (in fact BEING at HOYS) with a freeze mark?

I like the logic behind marking your horse but I think microchipping would be best and then just displaying big signs saying this everywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry your pony had a bad experience with freezemarking, it does occasionally happen, as humans, horse/ponies all have different skin types and different threseholds, about 95% are fine but the more sensitive types ie welsh cross arabs, pure arabs and chestnuts are normally the ones that are more sensitive.

freezemarking doesn't hurt, just rather uncomfortable but as you can imagine, if i put something very cold on your back, you would initally flinch by reaction, more than pain, if that makes sense.

i agree, the showing world dont often place horses that are freezemarked and i dont know why the showing faturnity are against freezemarking, but as its NOT a blemish, the horse shouldn't be marked down because its marked, saying that i do know quite a few who have been placed at the top shows now, as its much more accepted now than it was 30 years ago, if fact one of my own mares won her riding horse class at the Royal Winsor horse show and she was marked. but what i cant understand is people who actually care more about a rosette and winning a showing class than they do about the safety and security of their horses