Why do some unshod horses slip on grass

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HashRouge

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...and others not?
The Arab gelding that I ride can't be lunged in the field because he is like Bambi on ice once he gets a bit of speed up in trot or tries a canter (and his brakes aren't the best!). His back hooves just seem to have no grip. I've only ridden him on the Downs once since I started riding him and he was fine on the grassy tracks on the flat/ uphill in walk, trot and canter, but walking down anything other than the slightest incline and his back legs would slip. He actually went over on his bottom from slipping - it was like he was on black ice (luckily I was leading not riding as I'd figured he was finding it very slippy). I wouldn't dare do something like XC schooling or dressage on grass without shoes on him, which is a shame as he has pretty good feet and will go across most surfaces without even noticing.

So my question really is, why do some unshod horses slip and others not? I spent a fun weekend at the Rockley rehab reunion several years ago charging about an XC field on two of Nic Barker's horses and they didn't seem to have any issues at all! Is it to do with foot shape, horse's general balance, way of going etc?
 
I'm also going with balance / injury. My mare loses her back end quite easily and the other horse I know who used to do the same turned out to have a problem with her pelvis.
 
Suppleness and the ability to collect a bit. A well schooled horse should be fine, a stiffer or younger one might skip. Horses always ridden on a surface also can find grass less supportive and thus be less sure of themselves round corners.
 
Mine doesnt slip, although I would be more careful on wet grass on top of hard ground but what your suggesting is more than a slip on a slippery surface. If this is the one that failed the vet I think I'd be walking away.
 
Well we all know Nic's horses (Felix especially!) have mostly learnt how to defy gravity (likely by crossing lots of uneven, slippy, hilly ground at some speed out hunting & learning how to think for themselves how best to place their feet & her land is pretty hilly as well so perfect for adapting horses to that) & I guess are something to aim for rather than necessarily the norm for a horse who hasn't had such an extensive education about crossing different surfaces.

Balance definitely comes into it as well, if he's speeding up in trot / setting off in canter & THEN losing balance I'd bet he's falling onto his forehand, dragging himself along with his front end & so if he does trip of stumble a bit it's going to be that bit harder for him to catch himself & so any slips are going to look more dramatic. A horse who's been ridden mostly on an arena isn't perhaps going to be quite as confident on grass as one who is used to working a lot on it & a barefoot horse is never going to be able to corner as sharply as a horse with studs in on grass without slipping (although horses can of course still slip with studs on sometimes).

Some horses have more of a natural ability to have a "5th leg" than others also (they still slip about if you watch them carefully but they don't panic about it, control it & keep going.

I found his highness had as many legs as he needed to find going in a straight line & up & down hills (he even decided that jumping undulations in the ground was a bright idea when left to his own devices) on all but the slippiest mud when all was well but I always had to corner him sympathetically /in a balanced manner as if he motorbiked around then he would slip a bit. In his later years he did start to back off hard ground & he never liked deep mud... given the issues we knew about & those we found later I think this was more than understandable.
 
Weakness and balance. There's nothing like hunting to teach them to cope, but he should improve a lot with practice. Sometimes it's best not to be too cautious and to kick on and make them find their balance, but it's a fine judgement call, especially if the horse is weak through the back.



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How is he trimmed OP? I like to see a 'natural' shape to the hoof, which has a small amount of hoof wall longer than the sole all around. I have seen many farriers who are used to fitting shoes take a hoof knife to the sole and have the whole surface dead flat and level with the hoof wall. I would think that would rob them of some natural grip.

All mine are barefoot, and go around grassy corners like they're on rails.
 
How the hoof lands will be a big part of it I'd have thought, horses without a decent thoracic lift will land straightlegged and probably tow first behind, so it's sort of balance but it's rooted in fundamental issues with biomechanics. If you can work on passive and active exercises to lift the thoracic sling, or work out if there are other issues, you'll probably improve the grip.
 
Just to bring another aspect into it, my now retired but naturally uphill balanced horse used to slip more than current horse who is much more on his forehand, weak behind and lacked muscle generally.

However the former was a bolder let's get on with it, what's the odd the slip between friends personality. This was even clear in the field where I saw him badly misjudge a sharp stop and turn at full gallop and go down on his side. He was marginally better barefoot than shod, (I didn't use studs so can't compare but I'm sure they would have helped) and he improved a bit as I deliberately did some work trotting round corners in fields.

Current one is much more cautious personality and thinks more about what he is stepping on. He has really surprised me at how much he doesn't slip. His first dressage test was on grass last summer and we had some rain on dry ground. I went in worried about slipping. As he spooked and span at the terrifying white boards and judge at C, slipping was not what I should have been worrying about.
 
scruffyponies said:
How is he trimmed OP? I like to see a 'natural' shape to the hoof, which has a small amount of hoof wall longer than the sole all around. I have seen many farriers who are used to fitting shoes take a hoof knife to the sole and have the whole surface dead flat and level with the hoof wall. I would think that would rob them of some natural grip.

All mine are barefoot, and go around grassy corners like they're on rails.
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I think he's trimmed very short, but farrier seems to leave the frog alone.
 
ycbm said:
Weakness and balance. There's nothing like hunting to teach them to cope, but he should improve a lot with practice. Sometimes it's best not to be too cautious and to kick on and make them find their balance, but it's a fine judgement call, especially if the horse is weak through the back.



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This would make sense - he tends to slip when he speeds up in trot or canter. If he stays steady he is okay, but he tends to get over excited. He hasn't ever schooled, just hacked, and he has done very little canter work on a surface.
 
Leo Walker said:
Mine doesnt slip, although I would be more careful on wet grass on top of hard ground but what your suggesting is more than a slip on a slippery surface. If this is the one that failed the vet I think I'd be walking away.
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We never got as far as the vetting as he went lame before! But it now looks like the lameness was caused by an abscess as a hole has turned up in the lame foot. So I'm bringing him back into work then making a decision about the vetting. He now seems like the world's soundest horse again!
 
SEL said:
I'm also going with balance / injury. My mare loses her back end quite easily and the other horse I know who used to do the same turned out to have a problem with her pelvis.
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Yes this worries me a little bit! It was the way he lost his back legs on the Downs, but then the grass was incredibly greasy so I don't know...
But then he seems so sound, and walks, trots and canters with more enthusiasm than any horse I've ever known!
 
I have found that what determines if a horse slips is simply it's ability. Horses slip but the key is how they control the slip.
My arab's shoes came off at 6. He went for his usual ride the next day. This was a long ride over the top of the moor and up and down many slopes. Very similar riding country to Nic's. The grass was wet. He cantered up the slope with his usual enthusiasm, went over the top where he normally took 20 yards to pull up. At the top he found he didn't actually slow down as he went down the steep grassy slope on skis. He did manage to stop. That was it. He was sorted for the next 20 years. He had worked out how to deal with slick, downhill grass.
I rode behind him for miles. He appeared to slip everywhere. The rider however never noticed. The horse just had perfect control and confidence of his slipping.
The rider thought the horse never slipped so had total confidence he wouldn't slip.

I have ridden behind feral ponies trotting down the road in front of us. They went round corners on the wet grass verge. They slipped but they never noticed as they had perfect control of the slipping.
 
paddy555 said:
I have found that what determines if a horse slips is simply it's ability. Horses slip but the key is how they control the slip.
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Very good point. We joke my Ardennes has 4-hoof drive. He might be arthritic and huge but he can canter round a tight, muddy corner and stay upright.

My Appy with her various injuries and problems is forever losing her hind end - even in the field. I always assumed it was physical but it also doesn't seem to bother her. It bothers me when I'm on her though!
 
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