why does everyone hate pessoas???

First, i have never used one.

However, what i can add is you must never ask a horse to do anything that it physically is not ready to do. Much the same as we dont send our toddlers out weightlifting at a young age to increase muscles, that would be ludicrous!

I know every horse is different. My cobby boy is only just about forming an outline when ridden, he has just about realised that he also has back legs and is coming along nicely now. He just didnt have the maturity before to do 'outline'. I wouldnt use a restrictive aid, i rather enjoy the task of teaching my horse with hacking, schooling and some ground work. I only ever lunge occasionally and if im pressed for time id rather pop on bareback. He is 7 this year.

So, be careful what gadgets you use. In human terms, get on alll fours, pretend you are wearing said gadget, how does it feel? Are you really improving your topline, does it pull your chin down but hollow your back? If it brings your back legs closer, how does this feel? How long can you hold this whilst being still? Now try it at walk... That will give you an insite on how it works and how it feels and from there you can make your decisions on whether its sometning you'd like to try and how your training program may be formed.

Also consider what it is you are trying to acheive. Having a horse looking all topline might be nice but creating enough topline for what you and your horse need is more relevant. Personally, there is never a quick fix and i would suggest you look at the long game rather than the quick fix as we dont know what the long term physical damage will be. My Tb could tell you much about his previous life forever in a dressage arena etc and he has the aches and pains to prove it!
 
Crikey, not very many helpful posts are there on here! I thought that BlairandAdaza gave a reasoned and sound explanation as to the use and benefit. Made perfect sense to me - starting to strengthen an underweight horse before he has to carry a rider.

I do keep replying on this - it does annoy that there is a ridicolous assumption that if you use a pessoa, you are a: incorrect b: lazy c: unaware of the implications and how to work it! And while giveitago makes valid points about using it for too long on a horse unused to it - how many of these so called experts would happily make their horses go up and down hill without consideration of the impact on the muscles. We are on hills, and it absolutely wipes out even the fittest horse when they come to our yard to start with and they really do need to be built up.

So again... stop rushing to preach and give the majority of us who use the pessoa correctly, a bit of credit for SOME common sense.
 
millitiger said:
I don't like any gadget that attaches to the bit rings (so therefore will create a contact) which then pulls the mouth every time the hindleg is back.

That teaches the horse nothing about how a contact should feel... imo :)
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I thought I was alone in thinking this of the Pessoa, I really dislike them, to me it ranks there with an Abbot-Davies balancing rein tied from bit to tail.

The action of the hind leg is to tug, tug, tug on the bit ring to get the horse to tuck it’s nose in, to be honest if you think that’s the correct way to get a horse in an outline you may as well pop on a see-saw their head down.
 
BlairandAzria said:
Hi,

It was possibly my thread that was one of the ones you read- I posted the 'do you think my horse is lame *vid*' thread on saturday evening. The little vid i used was of me lunging my boy in a pessoa on both reins.

I have been advised by both the back lady and my vet to use a pessoa on my horse. He came to me a few months ago and was very thin and weak, had been out of work for a long time and lacking topline. We have had a bit of intermittent lameness in his backend, hence the vets visits. The vets advice to me was to use the pessoa once a day 6 days a week 20mins for two weeks, then continue with some ridden work added into the mix.

In this time I have seen a huge improvement in my boy, he had been putting weight on as we'd sorted out his feeding, but he has now started to form muscle in the right places. His spine no longer rests on top of his back like striding edge, and his bum nolonger peaks like a pyramid. I had the back lady out yesterday and she commented how different he looked, and how his back and hind quarters are so much stronger and much less sore than the previous times she has been.

Now everyone has their own opinion on various different 'gadgets' some will like some will not. I do not, however, think it is necessary to slate someone for using one (cruel and an abomination...are some of the words that have been thrown around.) There are various bits of kit I would not use, (i wont state which ones) but thats not to say that others wouldn't and with great success.

On my thread, I openly posted a vid, and asked for peoples opinions...and to which the focus of peoples response was the fact that i was using a pessoa-less constructive advice as to alternative methods- which would have ben alot more useful. That is the risk you take in posting on an open forum, and for the posts which are hurtful or negative there are many which are useful, constructive and positive.

Ultimately I posted because I wanted 'other eyes' to see if they saw what i saw...i didnt consider the negative vitriol towards pessoas as its use was instructed by my vet and in my personal experience i have always found them to be a useful bit of kit.

As an aside, I always warm up and cool down without the pulleys attached, and would only ever use it on the long and low setting. I spent along time introducing it to my boy and didnt immediately put in onto the bridle, but clipped it to the very side rings on the lunge cavesson and on a really very long loose setting. Yes the nature of the mechanism works by forcing his back end to work- but even now when its attached to the bridle he can still throw his head up and play around if he wants.

I think the vendetta against their use is misguided for the most part, although not without some justification, as like anything, in the wrong hands they can be harsh and unecessary.

I would say to anyone looking for advice or thinking about using them, get someone experienced to show you how to put it on and use it, watch it being used and the action of the horse underneath, make your own mind up about the use of it, take your time and go slowly.

The difference in my boy,in a short time, has been remarkable, yes he is still not sound, but he is physically fitter, moving better, his back and hind quarters are stronger and no longer sore, so these benefits, for me, outweigh any misgivings i have about the use of it.

I would also say that the people have an axe to grind are quite often the people who shout the loudest. People who are against- seem to be vehemently anti-pessoa and those for are often quite evangelically -pro.

Take advice, research, make up your own mind. Life would be boring if we were all the same, and what works for one may not work for another- it doesn't mean that either person is right or wrong.
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its all very well getting him 'looking nice' but the fact is, he is being worked 6 days a week with undiagnosed lameness. Sorry but I just dont understand?
 
He's lame still?

To me, that says it all! You are working a horse that is in pain somewhere. Doesnt it stand to reason that you would use a gadget that also causes pain...just because you want to.

Please people, if your horse is lame there's a reason for it! How would you like to 'work', whilst being tied up, for 6 days a week with a dodgy something that affected your movement.

Yoooo hoooooo! Wake up honey and stop being so damn selfish.:mad:
 
Dizzle said:
I thought I was alone in thinking this of the Pessoa, I really dislike them, to me it ranks there with an Abbot-Davies balancing rein tied from bit to tail.

The action of the hind leg is to tug, tug, tug on the bit ring to get the horse to tuck it’s nose in, to be honest if you think that’s the correct way to get a horse in an outline you may as well pop on a see-saw their head down.
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^^^this is how I feel about them also^^^^^^
 
pixiebee said:
whats wrong with good old schooling correctly and a bit of hill work to build muscle naturally rather than making them go round in circles in a forced outline? I would rather take 10x longer ENCOURAGING a horse to go 'correctly' than shortcut and stick the pessoa on and get quicker results. I want my horses to ENJOY work and schooling. If I ever need to tie my horses up in ropes to get results then I think that would be about the time I better give up horses. Sounds harsh, but just my opinion!
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Not harsh, very true agree with you 100%.
 
Pesoas can be very beneficial to some horses providing they are used correctly. Not all horses are going to like them as with any gadget. Some of the comments on here are clearly made by people who have seen this gadget used incorrectly. You do not tie their nose to their backside and it should never be used as a quick fix.

I know several therapists who recommended it as a rehab or training tool, and I have used it on all mine to encourage the build up of correct muscle to enable the horse then to engage and work correctly. It is used gently over a period of time. I would rather use that than have a horse going round with its head in the air using incorrect muscles and risking muscle strain when it is suddenly asked to use muscles it simply doesn't have.

If all horses went round on the lunge, head nicely dropped with rear end engagement wouldn't that be nice, but some, due to poor training or their own preference or conformation prefer to star gaze or poke their noses and leave their back end in the next county. Also if all of us had access to safe hills to build up muscle the world would be perfect - but it isn't.

I also like the Abbot Davis and have used that to huge effect - never lungeing with the head tied to the tail I would add, but as an under saddle balancing rein. Again there is no force if used and fitted correctly.

Anyone who considers it is wrong to attach a gadget to the bit rings - do you ride without reins? Remember hyperflexion (rollkur) is achieved with reins and force alone linked to the piece of metal you bung in the horse's mouth......

Everything we use is a gadget to some extent to achieve what we want and to help us and the horse.....the important thing is how we use it and why.
 
YasandCrystal said:
It's a case of horses for courses. They can be a fab tool where the horse needs alot of encouragement to work correctly to build the correct muscle, but they can 'scrunch' the horse up and lose some forward movement.

I used one for my ISH who was a dreadful star gazer due to hooks on her teeth being left for years, she needed to be encouraged to use her backend and realise no pain would ensue. Whereas my young WB has very short tight muscles which need lengthening and I don't want any pressure drom behind, therefore I use a chambon or lunge with 2 reins. The 2 reins lunging is my preferred option of all.

All these gadgets are just aids to top up good schooling. I like to school on the lunge from time to time, it gives you the chance to truly see how your horse is going and it makes a change for the horse.
Any aid can be bad in the wrong hands and if overused imo.
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Great post - very well said. Kali hates pessoas but lunges beautifully on two lines (also long reins) and goes well in side reins . . . horses for courses (no pun intended).

P
 
I don't 'hate' them and do have one in the tack room which I bought to try to help my (very long backed) wb work correctly. I always used it attached to the lunge cavesson rather than bit rings though. It did get him moving well and using his quarters, but I prefer to lunge with two reins now instead.

One of my friends did some research using an accelerometer for her undergraduate dissertation. In every horse she tested, the stride length was considerably shorter when using the pessoa (correctly fitted) when compared to the natural stride length or when using traditional side reins.

Slightly off topic.. but interesting.
 
I used one on a 4 year old that we were backing a couple of years ago (it was sent by her owner with the rest of her tack for me to use). I have to say that I didn't feel that it was of any benefit to the mare or myself so I stopped using it.
The backing process was uneventful and she has made a lovely riding mare who now has a sucessful showing career....without the (dubious) use of a Pessoa system or totally unnecessary (in my opinion) draw reins :)
 
I have used a pessoa on both my previous horse and my current one. She is built naturally down hill and therefore side reins, chambons etc are no good for her as she leans on them. It's not done up tightly and she can stretch down if she wishes, tho not to loose that she can get her front legs through if she does stretch - she's a TB so the 'unlikely to happen' is definately possible ! I, like others don't have the luxury of plenty hills to get her using her butt and both my instructors who opinion I value have said there has been a good improvement of her back / bum muscles. Like any 'gadget' be it spurs, whips, draw reins, even the bit you put in the horses mouth there is always a right and a wrong way and a chance for abuse.
 
rhino said:
I don't 'hate' them and do have one in the tack room which I bought to try to help my (very long backed) wb work correctly. I always used it attached to the lunge cavesson rather than bit rings though. It did get him moving well and using his quarters, but I prefer to lunge with two reins now instead.

One of my friends did some research using an accelerometer for her undergraduate dissertation. In every horse she tested, the stride length was considerably shorter when using the pessoa (correctly fitted) when compared to the natural stride length or when using traditional side reins.

Slightly off topic.. but interesting.
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With regard to the stride length, that doesn't suprise me at all, this is one of the reasons I won't use one.
 
I'm using one as part of the rehab for 'supraspinous ligament damage. Started out very lose and very gradually shortening. It's meant my horse has built good muscle across his back, which I'm turn will supported his spine whilst the ligament heals.

Up until this injury I didn't use one. Purphering to encourgae him to work long and low with just schooling and no additions.

I think it has a place but would be wary of using it too much. Mind you, I have had to use it everyday for nearly 6 weeks ( as percribed by vet) so I'm kinda sick of the sight of it. Much rather be riding!
 
pixiebee said:
whats wrong with good old schooling correctly and a bit of hill work to build muscle naturally rather than making them go round in circles in a forced outline? I would rather take 10x longer ENCOURAGING a horse to go 'correctly' than shortcut and stick the pessoa on and get quicker results. I want my horses to ENJOY work and schooling. If I ever need to tie my horses up in ropes to get results then I think that would be about the time I better give up horses. Sounds harsh, but just my opinion!
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Would love a bit of hillwork but live in Norfolk! ;)
 
I loath them because with every step the horse takes it grabs at the horses mouth - doing exactly the opposite of what we eventually want - A horse that goes on a light quiet contact.

The people who broke in my Clydie used one and for the first time I have a horse with a fussy mouth.

I am about to re mouth her after leaving her un ridden for two years. She will be mouth traditionally with a mouthing bit, followed by a Fulmer and drop. She will be lunged with side reins that have no elastic or rings so that the contact is still and she cannot learn that she can lean on the contact.

If the Passoa is attached to the side rings on a lunge cavesson then it can do good work but I certainly would never use one attached to a bit.
 
I dont hate them, I have used one before on the very mildest settings but then swapped to lunging in a set of elasticated side reins more often than not I just ride in nothing but a bridle and saddle - I just enjoy seeing results without it being forced i guess :cool:

they can be very harsh on a horse if used incorrectly though especially a horse not used to working in them - some people get carried away by how "pretty" there horses look in it
 
I think the critics of the pessoa say that it forces the horse into a false frame. It might exercise specific muscle groups but it won't solve the underlying problem of *why* a horse isn't carrying its body correctly. You want to teach them self-carriage with a light contact which a sympathetic trainer can help you do, either under saddle or by long reining.
 
I like them! My horse is slightly hollow backed and if I am not able to go down to exercise him I find it more beneficial that he is exercised in the lunging circle in a pessoa than just lunged. That way he is closer to working correctly, as I would work him if riding.
 
Evelyn said:
I loath them because with every step the horse takes it grabs at the horses mouth - doing exactly the opposite of what we eventually want - A horse that goes on a light quiet contact.
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Ha we agree ;)

Here is a picture
pessoalow.gif

pessoahigh.gif


Often they are set up so the horses action jerks the mouth - so the horse is taught less hock movement is more comfortable. This is not the correct message

I prefer the chambon to stretch back and neck, and if needed a tail bandage around the bottom if you think they are being lazy (but proper lungeing solves this anyway)
 
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