Why does he buck?

[chasingmytail]

The never-ending question!! My friend (a mature lady) foolishly, in my opinion, bought a 12yr old 16.2 warmblood a year ago. He's a gentle natured chap and she loves him dearly. Unfortunately he OCCASIONALLY puts in mahoosive bucks. He can go weeks without doing anything and then bingo, out of the blue, he'll do it. If it's a small one, she's ok but yesterday she ended up in hospital. She doesn't profess to be a particularly good rider and in all honesty she only pootles about the menage - she never rides him "forward" and yesterday, apparently he was only in trot when he did it. I know she had his back checked soon after she bought him and has had his saddle checked. I know it's possible that these may need re-visiting, but if they were the problem, surely he would be bucking regularly.

The horses on our yard have been stabled for the last 2 weeks because of the weather, however, he is ridden (gently) most days and hacked out at weekends.

So, my question is: What causes a horse to buck in trot? I know there are various reasons for bucking in canter. Could it just be pure naughtiness?

I've been trying to persuade her for some time to get rid and she has in fact advertised him but to no avail. He would make a great horse for someone who could cope with the bucking as I've seen him ridden by a professional and he goes beautifully and apparently can jump.

 

[Lintel]

At the moment everybody is abit fresh I could just be down to that and pure excitement? All depends on the "type" of buck I know when mine is giving an excited buck and when he is giving an annoyed buck. - Or equally when he is in pain.
Can't help an awful lot has she maybe been asking him for something in trot which he finds difficult - any lateral movements etc? Or is he quite sensitive to aids and has she perhaps become unbalanced? So many things in my opinion can cause a horse to buck it just depends on the horse and knowing the horse/rider. I think the right idea is definitely is too sell as it isn't consistent I wouldn't put it down to pain I'd put it down more to "habit" for either avoidance or excitement.

 

[L&M]

A hard one and am in a similar situation.

I own a 15hh cob who is angelic 90 % of the time, to the extent I have let my 12 yr old hunt him and take him to PC camp. However he goes through phases of bucking, mainly fly bucks, but can put in the occasional whopper! He won't do it for a couple of months, then will start bucking for a few weeks, then stop again.

We have had him scoped for ulcers, numerous back checks (incl vet/physic/chiro), a new saddle and everything else under the sun checked, but nothing has shown up.

At the end of last summer he had my son off on a road, we had just pulled in to let a car past, then he went 'off on one' - my son was shaken but got back on, and the cob returned quietly home as if nothing had happened.

Needless to say after that incident I have not allowed my son back on board, and atm this horse is turned away, and am not sure how we will proceed with it.

In our horses case I am still convinced it is something physical, as he is a very sweet natured horse, and when not going through a bucking 'phase', could trust him with your life. However I have now run out of money to do any more investigations……luckily he is currently kept at home and we have plenty of land, but if I was paying livery on him I would seriously consider pts as he is 16yrs and has had a good life.

I would not sell mine as would not want to risk him doing damage to anyone, and equally if it is a physical issue, do not think it would be fair on the horse to be expected to go back into work either.

 

[kc100]

There could be a whole heap of reasons. And without anyone watching when it happened (to see if she did/asked for something in particular, whether on purpose or accidentally, just before he bucked) its almost impossible to say why it happened.

I had rode a WB mare who used to put in enormous bucks, in walk trot or canter - obviously pain related. Turns out her hocks were too straight which had caused swelling in the lower leg and back hooves meaning it was painful sometimes even standing still (she'd occasionally kick out in the stable, not at people just randomly). She needed special shoes fitting but even this didnt solve the problem fully and eventually she just kept getting injured even out in the field so she had to be PTS.

Your friend is just going to have to go through the full veterinary work ups I'm afraid if she wants to get to the bottom of it - if the back and saddle have already been checked then vets is the next step.

Would be interesting to know if he still bucks even with the professional riding; a small buck out of exuberance in canter is normal but bucking in trot or other times is not normal (especially large bucks), so I dont think it is a case of finding an experienced rider who can sit to the bucks because even then, you still have not found the root cause of the bucking. Bucking generally indicates something is wrong, and there are hundreds of possible medical causes so it will require time and money to really nail down exactly when he does it, what the rider was doing at the time of the buck, what he was doing at the time of the buck (did he have incorrect bend for example on a circle - could be pain elsewhere further up the body etc), and what happened after the buck.

Even if she wants to sell now, there are not many people (even people who can sit a buck) that would want to buy a horse who is going to put in some massive bucks - any experienced rider worth their salt knows repeated bucking, especially large dangerous bucks, typically means something is wrong and wrong = money down the drain.

 

[JFTDWS]

I wouldn't be leaping to vet work ups, without a lot more evidence this isn't just freshness and silliness. He's been locked in a stable for weeks and only pootled around? How "big" are his bucks? Proper ones, or just enough to unseat his careful lady owner?

I'd definitely be wanting to see a decent professional rider on him - if he doesn't buck within a reasonable time frame, it's likely to be a rider issue. If he bucks, especially when getting turn out and plenty of exercise, then you may have to follow the vet route really.

 

[Goldenstar]

Tbh if I have been there and my advice would be X-ray the back.

 

[Scatterbrain]

One of mine bucks occasionally too. It's whenever he gets wound up and excited eg., riding in a group or when he's feeling really fresh. There's nothing physically wrong with him it's just one of his quirks. He competes at a very high level and has never been unsound. It's just sheer exuberance with him. The key is to ride him forward until he gets it out his system, then continue as normal.
If your friend is a nervous, he'll be picking up on that and could well be taking advantage of this.
I'd get a really good confident rider to ride him for a few weeks and see how things go. If all goes well and there's nothing physically wrong with the horse, then yes, probably best to sell him on and buy something more suitable for her ability.

 

[be positive]

There are plenty of horses that would buck if they were not getting enough work, that this horse has been in now for 2 weeks with only what is probably very light exercise is the most likely cause, he either needs more turnout or some proper work, there may be an underlying issue but most probably too much energy is the reason.
Pent up energy has to get out somehow, selling may be the answer or moving to somewhere he can get regular turnout or has a pro rider who will exercise him properly once or twice a week.

 

[ljohnsonsj]

How long is a piece of string- with no real scans or tests it could be anything, literally anything from naughtiness and being fresh to some underlying issue. My horse is a skitty livewire, she jumps well and she bucks alot! People who don't know her would go 'yep,that horse must have a serious problem' but she really doesn't she is just so fizzy and exciteable when jumping she just bucks. I think some xrays would be a good start and if it's just his nature then maybe best to sell as they don't seem well suited.

 

[chasingmytail]

Thank you all for your replies. Very interesting!! Lots of sensible advice. I know she had him vetted so don't think it's a conformation thing kc100. L&M - I feel for you especially where kids are involved. I think there's quite likely to be some rider issue. She isn't the most accomplished rider (which she freely admits) and it is possible she/he isn't balanced. I also think not getting sufficient exercise could be a major contribution but I know he's done it when he has been getting plenty of turnout and ridden exercise. It would be great to get a professional to ride regularly or to go down the x-ray route but as always it comes down to money and I don't think she's prepared to throw money at him and I can't blame her because she'll never have confidence in him now. I think she'll end up "giving" him away. Many thanks people.

 

[HeresHoping]

Hmm, bucking...as others have said, it could be

Exuberance: - my WB mare would do this, complete with squeaks, when excited and feeling fresh. And, if someone came up behind her in the school at a faster pace than she was going. But, later on, she would occasionally do it in canter when she had been working quite nicely beforehand. She occasionally nodded on a corner, too. Just very occasionally - so you'd think that you were imagining it. But, the bucking continued and a vet work up was ordered. It appeared she had arthritic sesamoid joints and bony changes to the fetlocks. The work was obviously hurting her and she was trying to tell us. She was only 10. She had exceptional breeding and a deal of research concluded they were the result of barn rearing and too much too soon so she was sent to stud.

Pain: Enter a 7 yo TB, ex PtP horse part way through his re-training. 5 stage vetting 6 months previously, no issue. Bought from the field as owner was pregnant with 2 stage vetting, again no issue. Have saddle fitted to horse as aware he was an odd shape by master saddler. 2nd hack he has a broncing fit on the green. Put this down to being plagued by flies but was quite shaken. 2 months later, with no further issue, start to up the schooling now horse is fitter. Broncing sessions start again and over period of a month escalate to every other day, knocking my bottle for six. Have x-rays and find kissing spines - very mild. Embark on a rehab programme commencing 6 weeks of lunging in equiami to encourage long and low. Horse starts to get quite aggressive and watching the movement, starting to look quite mechanical behind. Vet comes to reassess and discovers massive subluxation in the sacroiliac joint. It shouldn't move. Horse PTS as is very dangerous. Post mortem reveals an unhealed fractured ilial shaft and shredded SI ligaments. These indicate a rotational fall in his past that was never presented.

Pain: Horse #3: Flew 5 stage vetting but threw the odd buck in the school on asked to canter. Horse sat down in the field and is now on yr 2 of rest as he crushed his lumbosacral joint. This was discovered on scanning at AHT because that's the only way SI region injuries can be fully explored. However, it was also found that he had a mild suspensory tear on his left hind up by the hock. Tiny, but enough to twinge on being asked to canter. Hence the buck.

Pain: Horse next door: 14 yo Irish TB - huge beast. Out of the blue, after 6 years of ownership, tipped his owner in the dirt in a broncing fit. Two days later, repeated. Saddle checked and changed. Saddle had been checked 6 months previously but now no longer fitting. Another fit. Vet x-rays back and finds mild KS. Steroids administered and, because KS invariable results from other issues, either in SI or hocks, lameness work-up is done. Discovered that horse has arthritis in both hocks. Steroids injected and horse fine since. Recently re-x-rayed the back, and KS show huge improvement.

Bl**dy mindedness: Cob next door. Broncs with every new rider it has. Starts all innocent, starts snaking its head, whips the reins from the now worried novice on board, sticks its head between its knees, lets rip with three or four good ones, tips rider in the dirt, and then gallops back to the nearest field or haynet. Doesn't do it with anyone experienced, except a one off with squeak when excited.

In a nutshell, I just wanted to say that repeated bucking is invariably a pain issue. And the vet can't draw conclusions without a full lameness work up, really, and certainly can't diagnose KS without an x-ray. The saddle could well not fit anymore as horses can change shape in a blink of an eye. I would get it thoroughly checked if it is doing this regularly, and with others riding it.

Sorry for the essay. But I have that tee shirt, as you can see.

 

[Wagtail]

I would say that nine times out of ten it is pain related, but in this case it sounds like high spirits brought on by being kept in too much and boredom. I had a horse once that would do it out of a walk. He was a TB and would throw in one MASSIVE buck, drop his shoulder and step backwards giving you nothing to land back on! Even if someone had counted me down to THE BUCK I would have landed on the floor. I was his last chance. He did it with every other rider. I had him on loan for a year when he tried it with me intermittently and unsuccessfully, until he perfected this technique that I could do nothing about. As I landed on my head each time I sent him back to his owner who loved him enough to retire him. He had nothing physically wrong with him. He just did it because he could. However, I would stress this is very rare in a horse and I have never known another before or since that did it for 'no reason'.

If I was your friend, I would lunge him first until he has worked it out of his system. Never get on him fresh.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

You mention your friend had his back and tack checked when she bought him a year ago so he sounds like he could be due another check just to rule out any obvious causes.

We have a wow saddle that gets checked every 3 months alongside a physio check to make sure H is comfy as I'd rather address these things before they become an issue.

 

[OWLIE185]

Yes horses do buck some more than others.
Buck = 'I am happy and am going to have some fun with whoever is on board'!
If the horse has bucked before and she has now injured herself I would suggest it is time to accept she is not a good a rider as she seems to think she is and get herself a more laid back horse that does not buck and that is less likely to hurt her.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I would always run my hand along the back and esp over the saddle area, check the saddle pad and pull the front legs forward after saddling, ie assuming a very sensitive skin.
I would lunge in saddle before mounting, and watch the ears for signs of pain/misbehaviour.
It sounds as though it should be sold to be honest, but a full vet workup is required.
Probably its behaviour is related to not enough hard work.

 

[kc100]

I also think not getting sufficient exercise could be a major contribution but I know he's done it when he has been getting plenty of turnout and ridden exercise.

Then you can rule out exuberance/freshness - it definitely will be an expensive process getting to the bottom of it. If she is willing to give him away then that is probably best but she must be honest that he has hospitalised her, thats not just a little buck - that must have been massive to inflict a serious injury that warrants hospital. And she must vet the prospective owners very carefully, so many people will see a free WB and will be entirely unsuitable to even go near it, let alone sit on it. LWVTB may be better as the new owner can get to know the horse and its quirks, before taking it on properly. That would put a lot of the 'free horse' idiots off as well.

Most experienced riders (which it sounds like this horse would need) would not touch a free horse with a barge pole because they know free horse = horse with LOADS of problems. So LWVTB would hopefully help get a better home for him.

 

[claracanter]

I agree with the others, a horse can buck with exuberance. Mine does and I just have to sit it and send him on. However, the two occasions when he has seriously bronced were out of character. Both times I began the rounds of investigating feed, tack, back and vet work up. Both times a pain related issue came up( and thankfully was resolved)


So what I am saying is your friend's horse is most likely in pain.

My only other thoughts would be

Feed: what does she feed him and is it appropriate for his workload.

Lunging: If she wants to get back on perhaps she would lunge him before she rides each time.