Why don't operating BHS instructors have to register? Debate

[competitiondiva]

Another thread 'BHS records' got me thinking.....

When you get a farrier you look on the farriers register to ensure they are registered, as non registered farriers cannot shoe a horse..... This is to make sure that no one except a qualified farrier shoes.....

So why when you are looking for an instructor can you not look at the BHS site to ensure the person is qualified to teach and is registered? Otherwise whose to say anyone claiming to have their exams does???? Why shouldn't an instructor wanting to teach have to register each year in order to teach???????? Then it would be clear as to who is qualified and who isn't????

Just a thought, am sure all you instructors will shoot me down!!!!!!! But doesn't it gall you that people could be claiming they are something they aren't when you've put so much work and money!!! into getting where you are??????

 

[Bertthefrog]

I am with you 100% on this one.I know that many people rubbish BHS exams, and I for one, would never suggest that BHS qualifications make a good instructor. I know good and bad registered instructors - just as I know of excellent and appalling trainers - with or without the competition mileage. I worked hard to get my qualifications - and at great expense! It really annoys me, when I have gone through the mill to ensure I am fully insured, and that my first aid quals are refreshed regularly!

It costs approx £150 annually to register with suitable insurance. Added to that we have to maintain our first aid qualifications and attend CPD at least every two years. All at our own expense. All of which I am happy to do.

I think it should be mandatory for all qualified instructors to be registered and show evidence that they are also fully insured.

I am pretty sure that the BHS are working towards this - for the reasons you mentioned above. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned!

It is certainly something I am pushing our local riding club towards.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

In a word..........no!
but they should be!

 

[nosenseofdirection]

You can look on the BHS website and find registered instructors. The problem is that it costs money to register and so most people don't bother unless they are freelance. If all the work you do is in a riding school it is easier to just show your certificates to your employer when you apply for the job.

It would make more sense to me if all instructors who were qualified were registered, but I suspect that they would have to make it free and automatic to achieve this! Also some people might not want their details available on the internet.

 

[Brontie]

Those that aren't qualified would lose their jobs, whether they're competent or not, so from that view it would be very bad.

 

[competitiondiva]

Those that aren't qualified would lose their jobs, whether they're competent or not, so from that view it would be very bad.

I don't agree here if you have the experience to sell yourself as an instructor, qualified or not, then you'd still get the clients, but it would clamp down on the people who don't have the experience and trade off the naivity of people by saying they are BHS qualified.......

 

[Bertthefrog]

Bronte - why would they lose their jobs? They would only need to be on the BHS register if they had BHS qualifications. It wouldn't affect trainers.

If they had been lying about their qualifications in the first place (and I have known this to happen on several occasions) then surely they should receive some comeuppance anyway?

I have never understood the need to lie about your qualifications or experience. You are what you are - good, bad or indifferent!

 

[kirstyl]

Those that aren't qualified would lose their jobs, whether they're competent or not, so from that view it would be very bad.

Why would they lose their jobs? Unless they had lied about qualifications to get the job, in which case perhaps they don't deserve to keep the job

 

[charmeroo]

Personally I don't think that it's the most important thing for an instructor to have qualifications actually. The most qualified person in the world might not be able to impart their knowledge and teach, and may not have the best riding skills either. Equally so, there are plenty of extremely good riders who are not qualified to teach but can and do successfully pass on their knowledge and experience through teaching! Quite an interesting debate!!

 

[competitiondiva]

Personally I don't think that it's the most important thing for an instructor to have qualifications actually. The most qualified person in the world might not be able to impart their knowledge and teach, and may not have the best riding skills either. Equally so, there are plenty of extremely good riders who are not qualified to teach but can and do successfully pass on their knowledge and experience through teaching! Quite an interesting debate!!

LOL, I wasn't dismissing non qualified instructors, they have their place and I know a few of them who are damn good, and through their experience they would still have get their client base, but as I said before those who don't have the experience but pass themselves off as qualified (when in actual fact aren't) to get clients would be exposed...

 

[Honey08]

There are more people around here advertising as instructors who cite their equine degree as a qualification, and the local novice thinks that they are higher qualified than a normal instructor, when in reality the degree qualified person has no experience of working on a yard or teaching at all, just 3yrs at uni. To me that is far more worrying. I've got a degree in french, but it doesn't make me a qualified french teacher! I'd have to do more courses to become a teacher...

I'm a BHSAI, and would gladly show my certificates if anyone asked. I only teach at PC/RC now, as I have another job, but wouldn't register with the BHS unless I wanted to do a lot of teaching. Its not worth it. My friends who are BHSAIs or BHSIIs say that they don't really need to be on the register as word of mouth counts for much more, and that the BHS don't really give much incentive for being registered....

 

[charmeroo]

Agree with the above! Anyone who trades/teaches based on their qualifications should be able to be checked out somewhere! What horrifies me the most is novices who think some of the most dreadful instructors are wonderful!!!

 

[MissSBird]

My sister is a snowboard instructor BASI level 1. She has to renew her registration with BASI every year to get a liscense. Without this it is illegal for her to teach.

It ensures that instructors do refresher courses to stay up to date with new technology, information and teaching techniques. It ensures all instructors have first aid training. It ensures that all instructors have reached a basic level of competance.

In return BASI organise deals with many major suppliers of equipment so registered instructors can save money on buying the necessary equipment. Some of the mountain resorts also offer ticket discounts to instructors.

I really can't see why the BHS couldn't keep a register. BASI are illustrating it is not difficult to do, and showing what benefits could be made. I'm sure many instructors would appreciate discounts, and it would be great for finding new instructors if you find yourself without one.

I do think it shouldn't be a legal requirement for riding instructors however. That would damage some who are more than qualified without going through the BHS. But the benefits surely outweigh any cons!

 

[fleabittengrey]

I am a qualified BHS instructor and more so than your average Stage 3 + PTT (AI). However, in years of teaching and many clients a week not ONE has asked what level I have attained, has asked to see proof nor I doubt would understand what that entails. Its useful for insurance, but its not the be all and end all and therefore I don't think that haveing a register comparable to farriers is useful - as there are lots of good instructors out there who don't have BHS qualifications and lots of good clients who require more than qualifcations.

 

[charmeroo]

^^^^ Well said!!

 

[Bertthefrog]

I am a qualified BHS instructor and more so than your average Stage 3 + PTT (AI). However, in years of teaching and many clients a week not ONE has asked what level I have attained, has asked to see proof nor I doubt would understand what that entails. Its useful for insurance, but its not the be all and end all and therefore I don't think that haveing a register comparable to farriers is useful - as there are lots of good instructors out there who don't have BHS qualifications and lots of good clients who require more than qualifcations.

Likewise - BUT it would rule out the people who take the mick and claim to have passed exams that they haven't!

 

[Sashathebash]

I see the argument from both sides. A good teacher should inspire their students. They should be passionate about their "subject" and continually strive for excellence!
I have met many teachers - both in classrooms and in the horse world - who are the most uninspired, unpassionate teachers ever to walk the planet. Not only that, but the information that they are giving their students is factually incorrect!
In my experience and in my opinion a piece of paper saying that you can teach, doesn't actually mean you can. I've learnt so much invaluable horse knowledge from an old cowboy that I met when I was a teenager. I don't think he was very literate, but what he didn't know about his subject, wasn't worth knowing!

 

[competitiondiva]

Maybe I didn't word my question quite as I meant it........!!!

My query is for those instructors claiming to be BHS qualified who don't actually have it in order to get a client base. You could have someone who knows pretty much nothing, claim to be something that they aren't.

I wasn't including non-BHS instructors in it, I know several who have attained high competition level and have a world of knowledge but they get their client base through the experience they have, not through claiming to be qualified. Competition results can also be checked online.

What my thoughts were, is say you have a family who get a pony for their beloved child, parents don't know a lot about horses, go to the local feed shop, see an ad on the wall for an instructor claiming they are BHS AI/I/F etc and hire them, when in actual fact they could know zilch!! At least if there were a register that all BHS instructors were listed on they could be checked online to see they have the qualifications they claim to have and the insurance.

 

[fleabittengrey]

I think it would be very useful for the BHS to publish a list of what qualifications people have - a bit like how you can look up competition records on BD/BE etc. And a simple explanation of what each qualification means the client can expect. In laymans terms!
A list would be useful, I interpreted it as you wanted a paid up register such as farriers outside of which people cannot trade
(ETA I have seem some very inventive BHS qualifications - near to me there is an "Advanced AI" which means they have got Stage 4 but not managed to pass Intermediate!)

 

[kirstie]

It's an interesting one. I have my AI and although I don't teach freelance anymore, I used to do a lot of extra teaching. No one ever asked to see proof of my qualifications.
I got by on word of mouth and the fact that my clients enjoyed their lessons, my teaching style and felt that they were improving with my help. I never bothered to register with the BHS list of instructors either.

I have seen quite a few highly qualified (BHSI's+) instructors who are on the register and in my opinion really aren't any good. I don't think actually having qualifications and being on the register means that much in my experience. I hate to see people having demoralising, pointless and confidence bashing lessons in which they don't improve and believing it is them that is no good, rather than the 'highly qualified' idiot who isn't offering them any help. And because they have qualifications, they must be good, right??? NO.

My own instructor is fantastic. I saw her teaching someone else at my yard and really liked her style and methods, she seemed to be similar in her beliefs and training methods to me so I thought I'd have a lesson with her and see how it went.
I had a great lesson and decided to carry on with her and never even bothered to ask about any qualifications. I found out about 6 months later that she was qualified, not that it mattered to me, it just wasn't relevant. I enjoy my lessons with her and get more out of them than I ever did with my old trainer who trains people at olympic level.

Just because you can pass some exams doesn't mean you are a great instructor. Whether you are registered or not, it doesn't make a difference. Obviously there are those out there that are unqualified and doing a terrible job but I don't think the register makes a big difference.

 

[Bertthefrog]

(ETA I have seem some very inventive BHS qualifications - near to me there is an "Advanced AI" which means they have got Stage 4 but not managed to pass Intermediate!)

Exactly - cheeky blighters! We have several round here classing themselves as BHS stable managers when they have stage four care! Still, I suppose you have to admire their inventiveness!!

It was a point well made above that any such mandatory register needs to be either FOC or very cheap.

I take advantage of the cheaper insurance - but by the time you have taken all the other costs into account it isn't that much of a sweetener!

 

[Shilasdair]

An interesting debate. I'd make the following observations;
1. Not all BHS qualified instructors are good; not all unqualified instructors are bad (some are very good indeed).
2. Riding is a high risk sport; it carries a substantial risk of injury so the safety of the client is the most important aspect, to my mind.
3. If you are a novice parent, or a novice rider, how can you tell if your instructor is teaching you safely?
4. If not BHS registered, how do you know that your instructor has both a first aid qualification, and public liability insurance to pay for your care if you break your back?
5. Riding round a BE track, or competing at Elementary dressage, are NOT proof that someone is competent, safe or able to teach well. I have known 'BE eventers' who didn't know the length of a canter stride, who were uninsured, no first aid, and even drove their lorries/cars without tax and insurance. Their riding was so bad they couldn't get past Stage 2 in the BHS system - but that's fine, you just say 'I'm an eventer and the BHS system is rubbish' and clients will believe you...
S

 

[La Fiaba]

In ten years of teaching the only people to ask to see my certificates are the examiners! I always wondered how come they don't know I've passed the last exam? Surely they can just check their records? Obviously not, I wonder why....

 

[Smile_and_Wave]

Im not sure how much its costs to be on the register but am lead to belive its a yearly fee, when i am qualififed i will most certainly be on the register, although a lot of bussines is done via word of mouth reccomendations i would still think being on the list would generate a small amount of clients and dont know why people wouldnt be on it or why they dont have to be

being qualified doesnt necessarily mean you are any good at riding nor does it mean that if your not that your a bad rider or teacher but i would think anyone intending to teach should have thier PTT it is not that difficult to get

 

[Llewellyn]

I think they don't have a register because then they would have to take responsibility for the people on it who were truly shocking and we could all identify where they 'came from' so to speak.
There is one instructor I know who apparently is BHS qualified and I would happily ask them to reassess their decision as she is honest to god the worst person who has ever given me '(un)constructive criticism' whether qualified or not.
Personally I would choose a good instructor over a qualification.

 

[Bertthefrog]

I think they don't have a register because then they would have to take responsibility for the people on it who were truly shocking and we could all identify where they 'came from' so to speak.
There is one instructor I know who apparently is BHS qualified and I would happily ask them to reassess their decision as she is honest to god the worst person who has ever given me '(un)constructive criticism' whether qualified or not.
Personally I would choose a good instructor over a qualification.

But that is just the point - do you know whether she really is qualified and/or insured?

The BHS are encouraging individuals and establishments to use only BHS instructors that are registered - for this reason.

The debate isn't whether BHS qualifications make good instructors - we all know there are exceptions to every rule as Shilasdair has very eloquently posted. Perhaps if there was a mandatory register then the instructor you have used as an example could be made accountable - to seek retraining his/herself or be removed from the register.

 

[miss_molly]

I think the issue is that it costs to get on the register and so some people dont see it as worth the extra outlay especially if you are not looking for new clients.

Im currently completing my application to be on the register. I am doing this so next year my insurance will be cheaper, but this year with all the extras its going to cost more.

I think the BHS should have list of the qualifications people have obtained. This should be accessible to anyone wishing to check them.

I like the idea of the register of instructors and at least it will show potential clients you are aware of child protection, are trained in first aid and are insured. I think the BHS should make a free list of instructors, then charge for the insurance and an enhanced listing on their website.

Along the lines of qualification claims. My favourite at the moment is BHS Trainee. No explanation of what their training for, what level they have obtained so far, how long they have been training for etc.

 

[imr]

The BHS may dream of people using only BHS qualified instructors but that horse bolted long ago so to speak.

Each of the disciplines now has its own trainers databases, ukcc scheme, and training programmes. This will make the BHS qualifications less relevant. Added to which most of the top riders train and almost none of them have BHS exams.

Imho one reason for this is the BHS has not really moved with the times or worked with the individual disciplines or addressed some of the issues with the current exam scale. For example:

The standard of riding required to pass the AI is not very high. Whilst most candidates probably ride much better, the actual standard required is so low as to beg the question as to how anyone only at that standard can teach on the basis of their knowledge.

The senior equitation test (for the I) needs ad med dressage, intermed eventing and grade c sj. Few people have a horse capable of all 3 so the candidates will generally only come from a few leading centres that have school horses that are suitable. Whilst these standards are high they are nowhere near the top levels in each discipline and whilst having allround knowledge has value would a system allowing more focus on one discipline not be more realistic in terms of both what clients want and in terms of making the qualifications attractive to candidates. If you want to jump grade c you want to train with someone who has jumped grade a, but you don't care if they have gone round a be xc course and so on.

Career progression is not supported adequately. Too many AIs get stuck teaching beginners with no prospect of further progression or improvement. This is bad for teaching and the sport's development but also unfair on the individuals concerned.

This years bef coaching convention featured be, bs, bd heavily but bhs not a key participant - symptomatic of my point.

I should add that this is a criticism of the system, not of any one individual.

A register is only useful if it records all suitable trainers and carries with it the insurance etc requirements. But the range of alternative qualifications and experience is such that a BHS only register could not achieve that.

 

[galaxy]

Some posts seem unsure that there even is a register.... there definitly is

It's about £150 to join including the insurance (which I am told would cost around £400 not through the BHS.... HUGE incentive). But you can join and not get your insurance with them, but must show them a valid insuarnce certificate to prove you are covered.

My question for a freelance BHS qualified instructor that is not on the register is 1 are they qualified and 2 are they insured? (becuase as above there is a massive discount to get it through the register)

 

[fleabittengrey]

I'm not on the Register as I have a BHS approved riding school and so get my insurance through there. However I do not freelance, I only teach under my own indoor school roof with clients that have signed my RS disclaimer, whether they are riding their own horse or one of mine.
You CAN get insurance to teach without being either a BHS instructor or on the register. Not least through ABRS but also without any qualifications I know people who have insurance to teach through big insurers such as NFU/SEIB. I know of one person who was insured to teach (although she has now qualified as an AI this was a few years before) and the insurance clause was that she was insured anywhere but on her own yard!