Why is it so hard to find an instructor?

[Sprat]

I’m really struggling to find an instructor that I click with.

Working at prelim / novice level with my mare, and I’ve tried quite a few of the well regarded ‘names’ locally but I can’t seem to find anyone who I stick with.

My mare has a tendency to get quite tight through the neck and can lock onto the bit, and every instructor I have tried over the last year or so has been of the opinion that I need to hold on to her and push her through it.

Saddle, back, teeth, feet etc all treated and checked regularly, and I’ve had a bit fit consultant out. I think it is a weakness which will get better with more strengthening work but I want to make sure I do that the correct way.

I have some health issues which mean I cannot simply get stronger in my hand (fibro - shoulder issues etc). I am of the opinion that forcing a horse to work down and round is the wrong way to be doing things, and I need some more tools in my repertoire to help me achieve this.

I had a very disheartening clinic at the weekend where the instructors response to my mare going like a plank and quite un-supple was to put draw reins on her (I said no - I know there is a place for them in some cases but I know my mare and don’t believe she would have benefitted). I was then told we wouldn’t improve unless we went down the draw reins route...

I want to be able to ride with a strong core (working on it) and a light hand, and I want the horse to be light as well.

Am I being too fussy? Should i just suck it up and hope it gets better?

Alternatively, any recommendations of Warwickshire based instructors? I have transportation and willing to travel.

 

[MrsMozart]

Nope. Not being too fussy.

Seems odd that so many are saying take a tight hold. Maybe someone will be along here shortly to give an insightful answer.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I can't help with e recommendation, as I am nowhere near you but just want to say Well Done! for sticking to your guns. I hate those 'trainers' who teach people to ride on the reins all the time rather than developing the core and riding from the seat/legs.
I hope you find a good instructor soon.

 

[Sprat]

It ended up as quite an unpleasant experience in the end, as the instructor became quite forceful in their views that I should put her in draw reins.

I shan’t be going back there. A shame really as this particular establishment is renowned locally for being one of the best around 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[JFTDWS]

I spent ages having similar issues with instructors, so I think you're completely reasonable, and you're definitely not asking too much. I do think there is a dearth of really good, correct trainers, and a lot of local names are often not really correct in what they teach.

However, once I found one - a really good biomechanics trainer, through personal recommendation and considerable research, I found others through their connections, and everything got a lot better. I am pretty careful about only going to people I know are reasonable (or are willing to gloss over the fact I do things differently on the flat, if we're working on jumping etc).

I'm not Warwickshire based, so can't actually help though, sorry!

Oh, if it's any consolation, I've walked out of a few lessons, been blacklisted by a few trainers, and caused a few significant diplomatic incidents because I've refused to do things which are very incorrect on their instruction

 

[shortstuff99]

Are the instructors meaning 'hard' contact or steady consistent contact? Working a horse into a steady contact softening when they soften can help with a horse like this.

 

[be positive]

Horses that set their necks/ jaws need riding from behind to a soft hand but usually require the rider to be strong in their core in order to progress, draw reins are not really going to help even to short cut because the horse will still set it's neck and probably stop moving forward so you end up with another issue.

No idea of who is in your area but I would stick to your guns, work on building her core, getting her active behind using a good variety of exercises and polework until she starts to carry herself and soften more, lots of flexion, counter flexion, riding spirals and moving her around from your seat and legs should help and as you both get stronger things should improve.

I teach someone with a similar mare and in frustration did try draw reins one day, waste of time she just set against them and shortened her neck even more, I can get on her and she softens not because my hands are stronger but because my core is and also that I ask for and expect more, my reactions are faster to correct her before she becomes tight, she is still hard work mentally more than physically, often the rider needs to be faster to react and expect a quicker response which is not easy for most one horse owners to achieve with the limited time they spend in the saddle.

 

[Sprat]

Are the instructors meaning 'hard' contact or steady consistent contact? Working a horse into a steady contact softening when they soften can help with a horse like this.

I have questioned this, and was told to ‘insist harder’ when asking for a soft flexion and half halts (while working with a steady contact), which then just works against what we are aiming to achieve. I’ve been told that in order to get her into the outside rein I should expect a half ton of horse in my hands which is what I struggle with. We work with a steady contact, but if she isn’t totally with me, then no amount of attempting to flex or soften seems to work.

 

[Sprat]

Horses that set their necks/ jaws need riding from behind to a soft hand but usually require the rider to be strong in their core in order to progress, draw reins are not really going to help even to short cut because the horse will still set it's neck and probably stop moving forward so you end up with another issue.

No idea of who is in your area but I would stick to your guns, work on building her core, getting her active behind using a good variety of exercises and polework until she starts to carry herself and soften more, lots of flexion, counter flexion, riding spirals and moving her around from your seat and legs should help and as you both get stronger things should improve.

I teach someone with a similar mare and in frustration did try draw reins one day, waste of time she just set against them and shortened her neck even more, I can get on her and she softens not because my hands are stronger but because my core is and also that I ask for and expect more, my reactions are faster to correct her before she becomes tight, she is still hard work mentally more than physically, often the rider needs to be faster to react and expect a quicker response which is not easy for most one horse owners to achieve with the limited time they spend in the saddle.

Sounds very similar to Bean!

 

[Cortez]

Without actually being there or seeing your horse work it is impossible to tell whether your instructor was trying to be helpful or was way off base. If I'm taking a lesson from someone I always do a bit of research beforehand to see if I'm likely to benefit from instruction, after all it's no good going in to a lesson believing I know more than they do - if that was the case it'd be me teaching them, wouldn't it?

 

[shortstuff99]

I have questioned this, and was told to ‘insist harder’ when asking for a soft flexion and half halts (while working with a steady contact), which then just works against what we are aiming to achieve. I’ve been told that in order to get her into the outside rein I should expect a half ton of horse in my hands which is what I struggle with. We work with a steady contact, but if she isn’t totally with me, then no amount of attempting to flex or soften seems to work.

I think I get what it is they are trying to do here, but if you don't think it is working for you and your horse then that is all that matters really.

 

[Celtic Fringe]

Have you considered Karin Major at Overdale Equestrian - note too far from Stow-on-the-Wold so should be a reasonable journey depending on where you are in Warwickshire??
She is a Mary Wanless 'Ride With Your Mind' instructor and I believe that Overdale is Mary Wanless' 'home' base in the UK. This might be worth considering for you and your horse.
I know a couple of people who have had lessons/clinics there and found them very helpful. I understand that they also offer simulator lessons.

 

[chaps89]

Depending where you are in Warwickshire, I can recommend a lovely lady over the borders in Leicestershire. Very old school horse woman, very sympathetic but everything done very correctly.
Fwiw, I had the same issues. Mine would set her neck and jaw (then quite often follow through by throwing her shoulder out and bogging off) I had 2 different instructors insist on holding the contact and riding through. I didn't get it. Third instructor has essentially taught the same thing but in a different way and it's clicked. I do need a contact and I did need to persevere and not soften/give in when she was set against me but it was never a fight. All done through softness and core strength from both of us. Occasionally now we get duff walk to trot transitions and after 2 attempts I usually catch myself and realise I'm tense and holding too - how can she soften and move forwards if the rider on board is holding. So I breathe, relax and ask for a bit more and away we go. I've no doubt a pro would get a better reaction first time and not need a couple of attempts to get it right but there we go.
I'm pretty sure I posted about it in club house a few years back as my goodness was it soul destroying to go through at first!

 

[Mule]

The draw rein suggestion may be because it's a quick and easy way to teach a horse to respond to bit pressure. They are sometimes used to hurry the process along with horses who don't know how to respond to bit pressure. Perhaps the instructor wanted you to use them because of your physical difficulty with rein pressure.

At any rate, the horse needs to learn how to respond to bit pressure. It's unlikely to learn to use it's body correctly just by using half halts from the seat.

 

[Auslander]

I am no advocate of draw reins, or of a backward rein aid, but I do wonder why everyone you've trained with has essentially said the same thing. Have you tried riding her in the way they are asking you too?
Some horses like a stronger contact - and work better for it. It could be that these instructors are seeing something that you aren't feeling - so I wouldn't discount the way they are asking you to ride her unless you've given it a good go, over a couple of weeks, and still not seen/felt any improvement.
I like a horse who takes a bit of a hold, and who likes to be ridden up to a secure contact. You can still achieve lightness with horses like this, but to do so, you need to provide them with the contact they prefer, before you can tease the lightness out of them. If you're 100% focused on lightness, it's possible that you're not actually giving the horse a consistent secure contact to work up to.
Ironically, I find my own horse very difficult to ride on the flat, as he is a minimum intervention kinda guy. I can put anyone on him, and he'll do the party tricks, often second guessing what people are asking for because they haven't really asked him clearly. He and I used to clash a bit, as I tried to organise him, and he promptly said that I was an idiot who needed to wind my neck in! I've had to learn to ride him in a way that I don't particularly like, because it's what he prefers!

 

[Mule]

I am no advocate of draw reins, or of a backward rein aid, but I do wonder why everyone you've trained with has essentially said the same thing. Have you tried riding her in the way they are asking you too?
Some horses like a stronger contact - and work better for it. It could be that these instructors are seeing something that you aren't feeling - so I wouldn't discount the way they are asking you to ride her unless you've given it a good go, over a couple of weeks, and still not seen/felt any improvement.
I like a horse who takes a bit of a hold, and who likes to be ridden up to a secure contact. You can still achieve lightness with horses like this, but to do so, you need to provide them with the contact they prefer, before you can tease the lightness out of them. If you're 100% focused on lightness, it's possible that you're not actually giving the horse a consistent secure contact to work up to.
Ironically, I find my own horse very difficult to ride on the flat, as he is a minimum intervention kinda guy. I can put anyone on him, and he'll do the party tricks, often second guessing what people are asking for because they haven't really asked him clearly. He and I used to clash a bit, as I tried to organise him, and he promptly said that I was an idiot who needed to wind my neck in! I've had to learn to ride him in a way that I don't particularly like, because it's what he prefers!

And a horse won't be genuinely light until it has learned to carry itself. They can feel light but they're behind the bit with their legs trailed out behind them!

 

[milliepops]

I am no advocate of draw reins, or of a backward rein aid, but I do wonder why everyone you've trained with has essentially said the same thing. Have you tried riding her in the way they are asking you too?
Some horses like a stronger contact - and work better for it. It could be that these instructors are seeing something that you aren't feeling - so I wouldn't discount the way they are asking you to ride her unless you've given it a good go, over a couple of weeks, and still not seen/felt any improvement.
I like a horse who takes a bit of a hold, and who likes to be ridden up to a secure contact. You can still achieve lightness with horses like this, but to do so, you need to provide them with the contact they prefer, before you can tease the lightness out of them. If you're 100% focused on lightness, it's possible that you're not actually giving the horse a consistent secure contact to work up to.
Ironically, I find my own horse very difficult to ride on the flat, as he is a minimum intervention kinda guy. I can put anyone on him, and he'll do the party tricks, often second guessing what people are asking for because they haven't really asked him clearly. He and I used to clash a bit, as I tried to organise him, and he promptly said that I was an idiot who needed to wind my neck in! I've had to learn to ride him in a way that I don't particularly like, because it's what he prefers!

this is a good post I have one that I'm having to ride in a way that I don't find natural too, she *needs* organising and I'm more of a minimal intervention kind of person. But if I don't organise her, she goes self employed and we just end up in a pickle.

Periodically I have had a wobble and gone back to my default way but I think I've just decided for the last time that it won't work at least for now!

in terms of suggestions though, are you a member of a riding club? they often have a variety of instructors that you can dip in and out of to try.

 

[blitznbobs]

I agree - to teach a horse that doesn’t understand about light pressure sometimes you have to strongly flex to get them to get the message and actively flex their necks (laterally) to make them see what you want ... it’s a short term intervention for long term gain to get a horse to go lightly sometimes you have to show them the way ... and sometimes that means putting more pressure on the rein so that when they give you what you are asking for you can release it - thus reward the horse for going the way you require... I consider schooling a horse a bit like me going to work - mostly it’s fun but sometimes you have to do something you don’t like - and I work 8 hours a day + they only have to tow the line for an hour or so...

 

[Sprat]

I agree - to teach a horse that doesn’t understand about light pressure sometimes you have to strongly flex to get them to get the message and actively flex their necks (laterally) to make them see what you want ... it’s a short term intervention for long term gain to get a horse to go lightly sometimes you have to show them the way ... and sometimes that means putting more pressure on the rein so that when they give you what you are asking for you can release it - thus reward the horse for going the way you require... I consider schooling a horse a bit like me going to work - mostly it’s fun but sometimes you have to do something you don’t like - and I work 8 hours a day + they only have to tow the line for an hour or so...

That makes a lot of sense, thank you 😊

 

[Auslander]

this is a good post I have one that I'm having to ride in a way that I don't find natural too, she *needs* organising and I'm more of a minimal intervention kind of person. But if I don't organise her, she goes self employed and we just end up in a pickle.

Periodically I have had a wobble and gone back to my default way but I think I've just decided for the last time that it won't work at least for now!

in terms of suggestions though, are you a member of a riding club? they often have a variety of instructors that you can dip in and out of to try.

We should swap! Alf likes minimum intervention - he's a bit of a mind reader. If you think "I might do a change" - he's done it before you've finished thinking it. If you get too organised, set him up properly, and ask him - 9 times out of 10, he'll do something else instead!

 

[blitznbobs]

I guess I like a horse that takes the contact forward... my aid for med/extension is pushing my hands forward ...imo if you can’t do this your horse isn’t into the contact enough... I like to imagine my reins are like rods and I’m pushing the horses head away from me rather than pulling it in and this is where I live or die by my core strength... perhaps I should start doing planks again...

 

[Cortez]

Ooof - don't try having a Spanish horse then! Sensitive souls, they can't take that heavy contact stuff at all. I've totally revised my riding since changing from WB's to PRE's/Lusitanos and find "normal" horses like riding tree trunks now....

 

[oldie48]

I agree - to teach a horse that doesn’t understand about light pressure sometimes you have to strongly flex to get them to get the message and actively flex their necks (laterally) to make them see what you want ... it’s a short term intervention for long term gain to get a horse to go lightly sometimes you have to show them the way ... and sometimes that means putting more pressure on the rein so that when they give you what you are asking for you can release it - thus reward the horse for going the way you require... I consider schooling a horse a bit like me going to work - mostly it’s fun but sometimes you have to do something you don’t like - and I work 8 hours a day + they only have to tow the line for an hour or so...

Can't agree more, I had to go through a very uncomfortable period with Bisto to get him to accept a proper contact on my terms rather than his. And yes I did have to flex him strongly on occasions and because he was a bloody strong horse, it was sometimes very hard work and it felt horrible. Interestingly, it felt a lot worse than it actually looked so a video of us working was a real help to reassure me. He was also not off the right leg and persuading him to listen to it and react also felt horrid but I looked at vidoes and was surprised to see that actually my leg was pretty ineffective! Once he'd accepted the contact and given in his neck he was a complete joy to ride so tbh I felt it was worth sticking to my guns.

 

[blitznbobs]

Ooof - don't try having a Spanish horse then! Sensitive souls, they can't take that heavy contact stuff at all. I've totally revised my riding since changing from WB's to PRE's/Lusitanos and find "normal" horses like riding tree trunks now....

I have ridden a few - they’re not my cup of tea ... yes they always feel behind the contact to me plus I don’t particularly enjoy sitting on the ‘box full of fireworks feel’ each to their own I guess

 

[Pinkvboots]

Do you ever do any lateral work? Both of my Arabs struggled with being supple and soft through there body and they can be tense, my instructor does a lot of lateral work in walk, trot and canter at the beginning and it has made a huge difference in there way of going, even I can do some of it and I am no great rider.

 

[sport horse]

You have had several instructors, all well known names in your area and they have all said the same but you disagree? Can I ask, if you are so knowledgeable why you need an instructor at all? If it is just that you need to actually see what is going on have you thought of getting someone to video you so that you can assess the whole picture yourself , or even get some mirrors put around your school that you can look in as you are riding.

 

[JFTDWS]

Oh come on - we all know all instructors weren't created equally, and if the OP is using local people who've all come through the same system and had similar educations, they may well ALL be wrong. (They may also not - we've not seen them - but that does work both ways...) There are about half a dozen well regarded trainers in my area I wouldn't let within 50 feet of mine - there are also a good many I hold in high regard and would pay a good amount to ride any of mine if required. Such is life - it's not arrogance to stick to a system of ethics / desirability in what you're training, even if other people (including instructors) don't always agree.

I completely agree with the PP about using lateral work to develop the softness in the neck btw. They should be tools for training, not end results.

I also hate having "weight" in my hands - that isn't being contact averse (which I can be!), it's wanting a different type of contact. Horses, as said, for courses!

 

[Red-1]

I quite get where you are coming from, I like my horses to stretch softly into a contact, and for that I use turns and some lateral steps, and even work first from the floor if they are really fixed in their thinking to teach some reach with softness rather then pulling the heads in. I find a strong contact may eventually teach them to be light but not truly elastic as they learn not to stretch forward.

No matter weather the trainers are right or wrong anyway, as you are not enjoying your learning.

Sadly I don't know anyone in your area as it is not local to me, but I wanted you to know that I don't think you are wrong.

 

[Sprat]

I am absolutely not more experienced than the instructors that I've used, I wouldn't be so obnoxious to think I was (or why would I be there for a lesson...). What I'm struggling with is an alternative route to get me and my mare to where I want us to be. But I do know what I prefer to feel in the ridden work, and aim for lightness where possible.

Lateral work does help yes but I am inexperienced in progressing the lateral work, so while it occasionally helps it often hinders which is more to learn!

 

[blitznbobs]

Do you let the instructors ride the horse and if so how does the horse go for
Them?

I am absolutely not more experienced than the instructors that I've used, I wouldn't be so obnoxious to think I was (or why would I be there for a lesson...). What I'm struggling with is an alternative route to get me and my mare to where I want us to be. But I do know what I prefer to feel in the ridden work, and aim for lightness where possible.

Lateral work does help yes but I am inexperienced in progressing the lateral work, so while it occasionally helps it often hinders which is more to learn!