Why is my horse getting Laminitis?

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Shaman

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A year ago he was a 100 mile fit endurance horse. (Arab) 3 days before the competition he got it. He's always lived out 24/7.
At the time we put it down to a combination of factors. A flush of grass after some welcome rain. A particular bar shoe which we had used for a year, had been agreed as suitable by team vets and farriers along with my own vets and farrier. maybe a slow down in work in the week before a big competition and the addition of silicon and pads to compete in.
All went swimingly with his recovery. White lines narrowing, hoof growth rate excellant so in January after some good X-rays we reintroduced him to some walking exercise. Still things went well and exercise was gradually increased. (With my farrier and vets agreement) A small trot at the end of February and a bit of canter at the end of March. Then in mid April when the farrier came out (as he does every 4 weeks to keep an eye on things) we had a pedal bone shape bruise on the sole of his foot! Back to square one and a month box rest even though there had been no obvious lameness we played safe.
Things start to improve then last Saturary a horrendous attack of laminitis whereby he could hardly stand in the space of 2 hours. He was getting worse and worse before my eyes. I very quickly gave him 2 sachets of bute and called the vet. When she arrived he had already started to recover showing little reaction to hoof testers. By Tuesday morning when the vet came to do viral cushings and insulin resistance tests he was sound on no bute. He does not have insulin resistance or cushings. He lives on a bare paddock suplemented by soaked hay in the day and blue bag horsehage at night (only because I can't get any more last years hay). He was shod 2 days previously and showed no sign of discomfort or deterioration of white line. What can I possibly do to stop this happening again. He is 75kg lighter that a year ago and even then wasn't overweight as he was so fit.
 
I'd recommend joining the Yahoo group Equine Cushings/Insulin Resistance. They have over 10,000 members now, many of them with similar problems to yourself. There's masses of information to access on there.
I know you say the vet has tested for IR but I have read that unless the blood sample is handled and processed correctly, it can give wrong results.
I cannot advise on your horses laminitis, I just urge you to join the group.
Good luck.
 
A negative blood result for Cushings effectively rules it out, but a negative blood result for insulin resistance absolutely doesn't rule it out. If there is no other obvious cause of laminitis I would suggest an oral glucose tolerance test.
 
They can get it from stressed grass too, it can store sugar in a sort of panic state, I read it somewhere. An attack can happen very quickly, hour or two, my horse had to be out 24/7 in his muzzle, no fault of his own, long story, I spoke to Lami Trust about it and that I was taking his muzzle off for a rest for an hour, they were mortified and said not to..... as an attack can happen quickly

Are you soaking the blue bag haylage ? What else are you feeding ?
 
I can't remember where I read it, but I read somewhere that ALL feed/grass induced Lami is caused by Insulin Resistance and it is completely possible for your Arab to be lean/fit and Insulin Resistant and have negative bloods, as my boy did!

In fact I had him tested twice at different points in the year... both negative! BUT when he was forced to stop work due to injuring his Annular Ligament, he tested positive and started Metformin.

He had no outward signs (other than Lami) whilst in work, but over the winter when he went footy and tested positive, he was shoeless and his hollows above his eyes were slightly filled.

I agree diet and excersise is the key to managing IR as everyone will tell you, but some horses need a bit of extra help, as was the case with my boy!

Personally I believe Arabs are different. Neither of my two have ever had problems with being very overweight, yet they cannot tolerate mainstream feed. I now have changed to Thunderbrook Feed and they look and feel better than ever.
 
Man thanks for the suggestions.
We have now tested for cushings twice, at different times of year, both negative.
We are now contemplating the glucose tolerance test but will wait until things settle down a bit because it's only 10 days since his last attack. They say it is safe but...
No I wasn't soaking the blue bag horsehage and hadn't realised you should. He doesn't get any of it if I can get last years hay. He was eating it through the winter and didn't get lami, or go footy but it does make him loose. I don't know but perhaps if he was teetering on the edge anyway it might have been the trigger.
There wasn't enough grass for it to be stressed grass, he lives in an area less than half tennis court which is almost totally bare.
The only other feed is a small handful of happyhoof and Baileys low cal balancer.
I'm going to get a soil sample done too, you never know.
We did think about lymes disease, but he has no other symptons. Has anyone any experience of this?
Any other ideas would be most welcome.
 
If he gets loose droppings from the Haylage then I would be very worried about that! Inbalances in the hindgut are proven to be a contibutory factor to Lami - soaked new hay would be preferable to Haylage if you cannot get last years. You could also try getting some Oat Straw and give him a mix, so he isn't getting so much haylage?

The blue Horsehage technically should be fine, but it quite clearly isn't.

Vets will treat the bloods as they are scientific beings, but unfortunately bloods are not 100% (quite far from it) and sometimes you have to treat the horse!

Both my Cushings boy and IR boys can happily graze out for 6-8 hourse per day!

You could try giving him some Activated Charcoal (i.e. Fine Fettle's HappyTummy) IF he isn't on any meds... this will absorb all the bad stuff to help him at the moment whilst he has to have Haylage
 
Hi I can totally sympathise with you because I have a pony who is the same. He had his first mild attack of lami years ago when he was on grass, although not overweight and not 24/7 access. Since then he has been on a mulch paddock and fed soaked hay and he still sometimes gets mild to moderate bouts of laminitis. I had him tested for Cushings 2 years ago...negative and then earlier this year for both Cushings and EMS, both came back negative. Yet he seems to be completely sugar intolerant.

I used to feed him the Blue Horsehage in the morning, and soaked hay over night but I found that even the horsehage was causing lami. I have never tried soaking it, now I feed soaked hay (24hours) morning and night and a small haynet of the horsehage (1 kg) midday. He absolutely loves the horsehage so its nice to be able to feed him a small amount for the variety.

I share your frustration though, its so difficult to manage it when you don't know why they get it.....and very scary when they get a bad bout and you don't know how serious its going to be. My pony seems to get it most seriously when the weather is very cold so last winter I wrapped his legs every night once the temperatures started to fall below 0%.

I started feeding him a magnesium supplement earlier this year which has definitely helped so if you are not already doing that it might be worth a try. I also give mine Founderguard which is supplied through the vet, quite expensive but I think its quite effective.

Hope this helps and good luck with your horse x
 
That's interesting, very similar to how I've been feeding. I was lucky through the winter last year. The first attack this year was at the end of March. Even though he was on similar feeding regime to now. Through the winter he was out at grass except on frosty (on the grass) days but was out in the snow quite happily.
Interesting about the magnesium though. I'm definately going to get a soil sample done.
 
I have just had a read on the Equine Cushings / IR website and it says that horses should not be fasted before the EMS test. Pasha, do you remember if you were asked to fast your horse before the tests....just wondering if any change to feeding pre test might explain why yours came back positive on the later test?

I was asked to fast mine from 9pm in the evening until the test, at 9am next morning which sounds as though that might be OK for the Cushings test but might distort the IR test?
 
Sorry to hear wbout your horse, must be very worrying for you, especially when you are effectively doing all the right things and he still getting attacks. It does sound quite unusual with the sudden onset and recovery.

I am no expert but Robert Eustace from the laminitis clinic doesn't advocate any haylage for laminitic horses, I think his reasons are that the pH is too low, which isn't good for the hind gut, rather than it being about the sugar content.

Have you tried ringing the laminitis clinic? I'm not sure how it works but they have a lot of experience. He is also an advocate of magnesium, it's included in their formula 4 feet supplement. There's quite a lot of info on their website, maybe something will ring a bell for you?

Good luck with your boy, I hope you get to the bottom of it and find a way to manage it.
 
Shaman sorry to hear of your horse's issues. I have been juggling with laminitis and IR with my 11.2 pony for many years. Lately my 14.2 has become stiff and lame very quickly.

My farrier made an interesting comment - could be something lacking in the pasture. So I searched for clues and I then came across this site - do have a read it is an eye opener and very useful.

http://www.gotcha.com.au/articles/laminitis_obesity.php

Horses require some basic compounds in their diet which we easily overlook.
 
WandaMare said:
I have just had a read on the Equine Cushings / IR website and it says that horses should not be fasted before the EMS test. Pasha, do you remember if you were asked to fast your horse before the tests....just wondering if any change to feeding pre test might explain why yours came back positive on the later test?

I was asked to fast mine from 9pm in the evening until the test, at 9am next morning which sounds as though that might be OK for the Cushings test but might distort the IR test?
Click to expand...

Yes the tests are always 'starved' i.e. before breakfast! But he always has his normal hay ration during the night.

If you're interested, I have his results here from his 4 different tests - due to the first slightly higher ACTH and his symptoms and age in January, the vet thought he had Cushings... as you will see the bloods were not conclusive, so we re-tested for IR and got a positive diagnosis:

30/06/2009
Glucose 5.6 mmol/L (3.2-6.9)
Triaglycerois 0.3 mmol/L (<0.64)
Insulin 9.8 mIU/L (<20)
RISQI 0.32 [mIU/ml] (>0.22)
MIRG 4.5 100.mIU/ml.mg (<10)

On this blood test his ACTH came out at 34.8 pg/ml and it should have been <25 BUT that sample had haemolysed so was discounted



04/11/2009
Glucose 5.1 mmol/L (3.2-6.9)
Triaglycerois 0.3 mmol/L (<0.64)
Insulin 7.37 mIU/L (<20)
G:I ratio 0.69 mmol/mIU (>0.2)
RISQI 0.37 [mIU/ml] (>0.22)

I:G ratio 1.4 mIU/mmol (<6.0)
MIRG 4.1 100.mIU/ml.mg (<10)

ACTH 32.6 pg/ml (<50)*
*seasonal adjusted reference range

All good results!


17/01/2011
ACTH 31.0 pg/ml (<29)*
*seasonal adjusted reference range

Boardeline increase in ACTH but not convincing

29/01/2011
Glucose 4.3 mmol/L (3.2-6.9)
Triaglycerois 0.5 mmol/L (<0.64)
Insulin 28.7 mIU/L (<20)
G:I ratio 0.15 mmol/mIU (>0.2)
RISQI 0.19 [mIU/ml] (>0.22)

Mild increase in serum insulin - consistent with ongoing insulin resistance if this was a starved pain-free sample, which it was

He is going to have another blood test in September when he has his annual injections as he looks fantastic on the metformin and is sound and happy, so no need to change at the moment
 
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