why is yanking a horse in the mouth bad?

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eva

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had an argument with somebody at the yard today, was lost for words, and wondering what you'd say. they are saying it serves them right if they weren't listening to you? :(
 
I can't abide people who yank and jab horses in the mouth. Their mouth is very sensitive. If you have the right bit and ask with kindness, then there is no problem between horse and rider. People need to be more understanding me thinks. :(
 
'serves them right' - i'd say if a horse isnt listening its more a reflection on the rider- and this is quite backed up by the fact they agree with yanking! the poor horse won't have a clue what the rider is doing except for winding them up even more and adding association of pain to riding- obviously increasing the problem further.

and what horse is going to work on the bit when they are scared that it is going to suddenly yank their back teeth out!
 
I actually disagree with you there charleysummer. Sometimes my boy gawps all over the shop. If I'm asking him for something, and I ask him fairly and he still gawps around, sometimes I'll give him a sharp (quick, not hard) tug to get him listening.

this might happen once, or possibly twice in a schooling session and I usually get a good response.

What I can't abide, however, is someone continually (i.e. with every stride) socking the horse in the mouth. Far better to ask once, firmly, and get a response than to dally about "being nice".

I guess it's each to their own. what works with one horse won't work with the next.
 
I find demonstrating with twine and hands quite useful - ask them to hold a piece of bale string, then you hold the other end like a rein. Jag on the string - it might possibly leave a red mark on their hand, and make them say ouch. Then use a moment to examine the inside of the horses mouth, the lips, tongue, gums etc, and compare the twine on their rough human skin to a thin metal bit on very soft areas of mouth.
Its a rather extreme comparison, and who is to say they have never ever jogged a horses mouth - most likely not intentionally - and the horse has not been unduly scarred/upset - but it gets a message across!
 
My mum yanks Caffrey in the mouth on occasion out hunting when he's dragging her all over and being a little sod - don't really blame her TBH!!

Hate hate hate it when people do it coming out of the ring after a bad round!!
 
Last week end there was a programme on West German TV about Rosarion, a stallion sold at three and bought back by his owner so save him being put down at six. He had suffered a broken jaw because he was ridden with a heavy hand. The vet who looked after him said that every time you pull on a horse's head which is in the vertical, you have an effect on the jaw that feels like someone kicking you in the shins. Sounds a good reason not to yank on its mouth.
 
talkinghorse said:
Last week end there was a programme on West German TV about Rosarion, a stallion sold at three and bought back by his owner so save him being put down at six. He had suffered a broken jaw because he was ridden with a heavy hand. The vet who looked after him said that every time you pull on a horse's head which is in the vertical, you have an effect on the jaw that feels like someone kicking you in the shins. Sounds a good reason not to yank on its mouth.
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I do hope a lot of people read this.
IMO if a horse isn't listening to you, you need to use more leg, not more hand.
 
Like I said, every horse is different - I know what works for mine, and I guess I was playing devil's advocate but I don't think you can generalise like that.
 
I would never yank a horse in the mouth to make it listen to me. I have had some pain in the ar*se rides too! If the horse is behaving in a way where you need to yank the mouth to get it's attention, you need to go back to basics.

ETA ALthough I did once yank my old pony in the mouth when I was about 14 because he refused a double, poor boy, I was a stroppy cow then and if you can hear me boy, i'm sorry :)
 
Iv rode out with a girl who pulls her horses mouth out the whole time. The horse trips a lot and she gets angry about it so she kicks it in the guts as hard as she can and jabs it in the mouth time after time and shouts at him to get up. But she won't listen and says if the horse wasn't winding her up he wouldn't get it. I stopped riding with her cause my horse was getting nervous off her behaviour and she wasn't even on my horse.
Can't believe some people
 
Maletto said:
Like I said, every horse is different - I know what works for mine, and I guess I was playing devil's advocate but I don't think you can generalise like that.
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I argree with your original post.

I have a ex racer who is just coming back into work after I rescued him. He's been doing ok for 8 months but he is so hard on my hands. He comes soft and then just flicks his head up and yanks himself in the gob so it can't hurt that much IMO. He's happy to hang on my hands but if I give a good half halt he gets off and goes well. If I didn't I would be half halting every other stride. It works for him so please don't tell me I have to go back to basics as I have. He is 18 years old and unfortunetly and he isn't likely to change so I have to make do what I can which works.If I didn't give a good half halt then he would rush off and canter and then i'd have to pull even more to stop. Horses for course though i'm certainly not saying I agree with gobbin a horse just because they didn't go well.
 
Personally I think we should appreciate all the work a horse does for us, it allows us to put the bit in its mouth and do whatever we're asking (well most of the time :L ) yet when they are having a bit of a 'moment' I don't think tugging hard at their mouth is going to help matters in anyway...
I've especially learned this these last few months as I have an ex-polo who isn't used to having alot of contact with the bit, thus teaching me that there are other ways of dealing with problems than having a big tug at their bit. x
 
Maletto said:
I actually disagree with you there charleysummer. Sometimes my boy gawps all over the shop. If I'm asking him for something, and I ask him fairly and he still gawps around, sometimes I'll give him a sharp (quick, not hard) tug to get him listening.

this might happen once, or possibly twice in a schooling session and I usually get a good response.

What I can't abide, however, is someone continually (i.e. with every stride) socking the horse in the mouth. Far better to ask once, firmly, and get a response than to dally about "being nice".

I guess it's each to their own. what works with one horse won't work with the next.
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Agree with you Maletto was hacking today decided to canter my boy through an open field asked for canter and he just took off gave him a VERY hefty half halt and he stopped then asked for trot then canter and we had a lovely canter!!!! Now people could say I was 'socking' my horse in the gob and if they had just seen me at the moment I was half halting then they would probably look at me with distain!!!. However I do not like 'handy' riding!!!
 
I can't disagree with a safety stop whilst riding but i was reffering to the yanking i have witnessed-

Basically the rider was riding the horse, and getting very frustrated that the horse didnt understand their aids to do some lateral movements- when the horse wasnt very well schooled anyway. The rider kept asking for bend with the rein when they got angry and yanked with it- and i when i say 'yanked' the horse went up and this happened regulary- everytime the person tried to canter the horse it would run away in panic and it went round in circles until luckily she gave up with horses! and the yank wasn't just once, she would yank yank yank yank harder and harder :( so i'm quite sensitive to the idea of yanking after having witnessed it in such extreme, as i found it upsetting
 
No wonder charleysummer, that's not fair at all :( If the horse is trying then there's absolutely no excuse. I'm not surprised you were upset. I would have been too.

I kind of meant the situation PC Steele was talking about, or the situation I found myself in on Sunday - me trying to circle smaller and B gawping at the ponies that had just walked onto the farm. nightmare. I just reminded him that I should have been the centre of his attention. No amount of jabbing in the ribs with my spurs would have helped TBH!
 
i suppose i was seeing it from a different perspective! i'd call that a 'check' if asking for attention so i call 'yanking' as i described above- which i'd also describe as abuse. I have also seen horses mouths bleed, maybe i've just had very bad experiences in yanking!
 
Personally I would interpret yanking as really socking a horse in the mouth as opposed to a firmer aid than normal, in which case I would ask them how they would enjoy being punched in the gob by someone every few minutes?
 
"It serves him right", what a terrifying statement.

Does this person actually believe the horse understands what she is doing?

This is anthropomorphism gone mad, they are HORSES, not horse shaped people FFS!

I knew I shouldn't have started reading this thread, this sort of behaviour makes me so angry.
 
"Serves them right"

Next time the horse floors its rider because its fed up of putting up with all the yanking and jabbing, just say that to the rider "Serves you right" ;)

If we were all skilled enough none of us would ever have a need to yank any horse in the mouth, IMHO. And if you're not skilled enough I'd like to hope you do everything you can to get to the point where you are.

The only time when I can think it is acceptable to yank a horse in his mouth is if he is tanking off, not listening to you and will put himself and/or you in danger if he doesn't stop. In that instance, use every tool in your box to minimise the risk.
 
I have been sitting on my hands, but can't help myself. I would love to know what school of horsemanship suggests that the way to attract a horses attention is to either sock it in the gob, or jab it with spurs! If that is the 'normal' method of communication, then it is akin to the families that constantly shout and scream at each other, with no-one actually listening to anyone else at all.
 
yorksG said:
I have been sitting on my hands, but can't help myself. I would love to know what school of horsemanship suggests that the way to attract a horses attention is to either sock it in the gob, or jab it with spurs! If that is the 'normal' method of communication, then it is akin to the families that constantly shout and scream at each other, with no-one actually listening to anyone else at all.
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^^^This

I'm firmly of the opinion that quiet communication, between families or horse and rider, is the way to go. In any relationship there may be occasion to raise one's voice but the gentler the normal method of communication the smaller the increase needs to be to get attention.
 
talkinghorse said:
Last week end there was a programme on West German TV about Rosarion, a stallion sold at three and bought back by his owner so save him being put down at six. He had suffered a broken jaw because he was ridden with a heavy hand. The vet who looked after him said that every time you pull on a horse's head which is in the vertical, you have an effect on the jaw that feels like someone kicking you in the shins. Sounds a good reason not to yank on its mouth.
Click to expand...

Agree. Hope people pay attention to this. I don't get it either. After getting a horse 2 years ago who was very headshy (A lot of this was because she was jabbed in the mouth) I would never be abe to do it.
 
I'll always remember seeing a mounted policewomen in central London trying to direct traffic, she was constantly yanking her poor horse about it didn't know which way it was going making it more aggitated, holding its head up trying to avoid contact resulting in more yanking. It was extremely busy and I could see the PC was exasperated trying to control her horse, traffic and pedestrians but on this occassion I didn't witness the good horsemanship from the mounted police I normally do.
 
YorksG - if your spurs comment was aimed at me, I was responding to the poster who said you need more leg not more hand if the horse isn't listening.

Of course I don't agree wtih jabbing a horse with spurs, the same way I don't agree with "yanking" the way the OP has gone on to describe it - was just exaggerating my point by saying that more leg would have done diddly-squat to get the horse's attention.

I do not believe for one moment that the way to get a harmonious relationship with your horse is by force or incurring pain on the animal
 
Maletto said:
I actually disagree with you there charleysummer. Sometimes my boy gawps all over the shop. If I'm asking him for something, and I ask him fairly and he still gawps around, sometimes I'll give him a sharp (quick, not hard) tug to get him listening.

this might happen once, or possibly twice in a schooling session and I usually get a good response.

What I can't abide, however, is someone continually (i.e. with every stride) socking the horse in the mouth. Far better to ask once, firmly, and get a response than to dally about "being nice".

I guess it's each to their own. what works with one horse won't work with the next.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that, Maletto, my boy can be a bit like that sometimes, although I do try and keep my hands as light as possible sometimes he is just gawking at things round about him and not listening to me.
 
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