Why the regression?

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Parkes

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I’ve long lined and lunged my gelding, lwith some success. He definitely has an “opinion” and would take a while to get down to work. However, currently he’s turning in on the circle, refusing to go forward, and generally rebellious. It feels like he’s lost all the progress we have previous made. I’m back to starting at the beginning, trying not to become frustrated.

Wondering if anyone has had this experience or input or advice? Maybe vary the program, do some
work in hand etc…?
 
His opinion is actually communication. He's finding it hard, too hard, probably discomfort, possibly confusion, your job I guess is to work out why. I'd start with the physical.

Equitopiacenter.com has some great resources for assessing the dysfunction/discomfort level of things that may not show up as actual lameness etc in a vet assessment.
 
SEL said:
How old? How long are the sessions?
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He’s 15. Had him since he was a yearling. I try to keep sessions brief, but lately I’ve been pushing until he offers the s
Desired response, then
bonny said:
Are you riding him ? If yes I would stop lunging him and vary the riding too.
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0
Currently not riding him. I’ll ad more ground work stuff and see if he improves. I somehow don’t think it’s physical, knowing this horse’s temperament.
 
sbloom said:
His opinion is actually communication. He's finding it hard, too hard, probably discomfort, possibly confusion, your job I guess is to work out why. I'd start with the physical.

Equitopiacenter.com has some great resources for assessing the dysfunction/discomfort level of things that may not show up as actual lameness etc in a vet assessment.
Click to expand...
 
I think it’s behavioral vs physical. Like you suggested, I need to sort out the function of the behavior and go from there.
 
Tbh I think you might be misreading what he is trying to communicate to you - first on his ridden behaviour and now by being 'too calm'.

As per others up thread, I think I would be looking at a vet consultation as the next step to working out what is up with him.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
He's telling you something hurts.
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That may be, but his reactions are the same as when he first started to learn to lunge and improved. That’s why I said “regression”. He may truly be uncomfortable about something now, and this is the only way he knows to express it.

When he was first learning, it was my lack of skill, and the trainer was able to get him going. I still think my lack of skill is a factor. I feel like he’s training me at the moment.:)
 
Parkes said:
That may be, but his reactions are the same as when he first started to learn to lunge and improved. That’s why I said “regression”. He may truly be uncomfortable about something now, and this is the only way he knows to express it.

When he was first learning, it was my lack of skill, and the trainer was able to get him going. I still think my lack of skill is a factor. I feel like he’s training me at the moment.:)
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But how about the riding element? Why do you believe he got spooky and dangerous?
 
Bellaboo18 said:
He's telling you something hurts.
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That may be, but his reactions are the same as when he first started to learn to lunge and improved. That’s why I said “regression”. He may truly be uncomfortable about something now, and this is the only way he knows to express it.
When he was first learning, it was my lack of skill, and the trainer was able to get him going. I still think my lack of skill is a factor. I feel like he’s training me at the moment.:)
Bellaboo18 said:
But how about the riding element? Why do you believe he got spooky and dangerous?
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His temperament. A little over reactive and green at the time. Trainer said he’d always be the type to test me…
 
Parkes said:
That may be, but his reactions are the same as when he first started to learn to lunge and improved. That’s why I said “regression”. He may truly be uncomfortable about something now, and this is the only way he knows to express it.

When he was first learning, it was my lack of skill, and the trainer was able to get him going. I still think my lack of skill is a factor. I feel like he’s training me at the moment.:)
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Horses don't have many ways of expressing things, and they're not ways they "know", it's usually about what choices we give them to express themselves, hence so many comments out there about shut down horses.

Often when trainers can get them going they simply have the strength and the tool kit to drown out the objection, effectively to reduce the choice the horse has even further. Arguably you are getting the truer picture.

Parkes said:
Trainer said he’d always be the type to test me…
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Hmm...

Parkes said:
Conditioning, building communication etc. I also like to long line and double lung for variety. Still learning, but we were doing OK. Now back to square one.
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Try closer in hand work to help his body find better balance, so often in lunging and long reining they're subtly against the hand or otherwise leaning or bracing.

Parkes said:
Temperament and age. Green and over reactive. He had that teleport spook.
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They are never really reasons for serious spooking, instead we need to work out what they don't feel safe, because that is why they spook. Physical issues before backing that are unaddressed, going too fast and not dealing with the consequences which may well be physical and jot just mental. Do have a look at the link I posted, it's a brilliant resource for looking at horses in a different way to how so many of us have been trained to do, without being some "bitless, braless" type space (not that I would disparage either I should be clear!).
 
sbloom said:
Horses don't have many ways of expressing things, and they're not ways they "know", it's usually about what choices we give them to express themselves, hence so many comments out there about shut down horses.

Often when trainers can get them going they simply have the strength and the tool kit to drown out the objection, effectively to reduce the choice the horse has even further. Arguably you are getting the truer picture.



Hmm...



Try closer in hand work to help his body find better balance, so often in lunging and long reining they're subtly against the hand or otherwise leaning or bracing.



They are never really reasons for serious spooking, instead we need to work out what they don't feel safe, because that is why they spook. Physical issues before backing that are unaddressed, going too fast and not dealing with the consequences which may well be physical and jot just mental. Do have a look at the link I posted, it's a brilliant resource for looking at horses in a different way to how so many of us have been trained to do, without being some "bitless, braless" type space (not that I would disparage either I should be clear!).
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Lunging is all about your position. You need to keep a v shape with the line and the whip as the points of the v, with your body as the middle of the v. If they turn in, get toward the rear of the horse and bit more and get them more to the front of the rein hand.
 
Spiderpig2009 said:
Lunging is all about your position. You need to keep a v shape with the line and the whip as the points of the v, with your body as the middle of the v. If they turn in, get toward the rear of the horse and bit more and get them more to the front of the rein hand.
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I suspect he’s taking advantage of some of the holes in my position as well.
 
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