Why turn away?

SNORKEY

SNORKEY

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I was wondering how many people turn their horses away after breaking and why?
I didn't turn my boy away as I only ever got time to ride him a couple of times a week. I'm now going to break my cob in this year and he's only ever going to be a fun hack around, again 2/3 times a week, should I turn him away?
 
SNORKEY said:
I was wondering how many people turn their horses away after breaking and why?
I didn't turn my boy away as I only ever got time to ride him a couple of times a week. I'm now going to break my cob in this year and he's only ever going to be a fun hack around, again 2/3 times a week, should I turn him away?
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For me, I tend to wait until the end of the third year to start and back. I so very little other than basic manners and handling before then. I back and start for 6-8 weeks, then turn away for anything from 2-6 months depending on the individual horse.

The turn away period is simply because they are not physically mature enough when I back them and I always find they have a growth spurt after backing, so don't want to stress the body. It also really seems to help them mentally. They come back after the rest period much more mentally mature and ready to work.

I do think a working horse needs time away to mature, but for a happy hacker, I wouldn't think it would be a problem not to.
 
_GG_ said:
For me, I tend to wait until the end of the third year to start and back. I so very little other than basic manners and handling before then. I back and start for 6-8 weeks, then turn away for anything from 2-6 months depending on the individual horse.

The turn away period is simply because they are not physically mature enough when I back them and I always find they have a growth spurt after backing, so don't want to stress the body. It also really seems to help them mentally. They come back after the rest period much more mentally mature and ready to work.

I do think a working horse needs time away to mature, but for a happy hacker, I wouldn't think it would be a problem not to.
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i agree with most of this but why would a 'happy hacker' not need the same time to mature as a 'competition horse'?
 
Jools2345 said:
i agree with most of this but why would a 'happy hacker' not need the same time to mature as a 'competition horse'?
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Simply referring to the OP, not in general as OP would only ride gently a couple of times a week. That is very different to coming into work and I only said I can't see it being too much of a problem. I wouldn't do it myself. As I said, I like to allow plenty of time, all that is necessary for both physical and mental maturity.
 
SNORKEY said:
I was wondering how many people turn their horses away after breaking and why?
I didn't turn my boy away as I only ever got time to ride him a couple of times a week. I'm now going to break my cob in this year and he's only ever going to be a fun hack around, again 2/3 times a week, should I turn him away?
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I think it is mostly to give the rider a rest after all that stress - but also it does give the horse a bit of time to chill, and to go back to the herd environment, and remember it is a horse........But the real answer is, break a horse at an age when it is fairly weak - so not going to be an absolute monster - do a bit to make it relatively domesticated, Return it to its natural state for 6 months or so - and then pick it up again, when it might remember some of those early schooling sessions - so you are not starting from scratch from a big bolshie youngster. But horses for courses - some start them at 5 (argghhh - why?) and others start when they know the horse is ready, and continue, if all is going well. Like kids they all develop at different ages - some are budding Oxbridge candidates and just want to do the job, and others are slow burn to get there in the end (if only a L1 NVQ) !!
 
I am the same, back in third year then turn away until the fourth.

I was told and believe you back in the third year because the horse is weaker and easier to back, will not fight you. Then in the fourth year when they are bigger and stronger they already know the basics.
I think this is why late starters - 6yo can be harder to back.
 
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_GG_ said:
For me, I tend to wait until the end of the third year to start and back. I so very little other than basic manners and handling before then. I back and start for 6-8 weeks, then turn away for anything from 2-6 months depending on the individual horse.

The turn away period is simply because they are not physically mature enough when I back them and I always find they have a growth spurt after backing, so don't want to stress the body. It also really seems to help them mentally. They come back after the rest period much more mentally mature and ready to work.

I do think a working horse needs time away to mature, but for a happy hacker, I wouldn't think it would be a problem not to.
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So why not wait until their fourth year before backing them, when they would be physically and mentally mature? Not an arsey question, just interested why you would start as a three year old and turn away for several months until mature, rather than leave in the field for an extra year then start as a four year old :)
 
MrsElle said:
So why not wait until their fourth year before backing them, when they would be physically and mentally mature? Not an arsey question, just interested why you would start as a three year old and turn away for several months until mature, rather than leave in the field for an extra year then start as a four year old :)
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3yo tend to be lanky and weaker, in them several months they grow and bulk out. They mentally mature aswell so have there own opinions about what they want. 3yo still look to the handler and trust them so easier to train.
 
MrsElle said:
So why not wait until their fourth year before backing them, when they would be physically and mentally mature? Not an arsey question, just interested why you would start as a three year old and turn away for several months until mature, rather than leave in the field for an extra year then start as a four year old :)
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Because as a standard rule, they are mentally less inclined to be bolshy and difficult when they are a bit younger. Teach the basics so that they remember them later on when they are more mature.

I will leave some horses until the fourth or even fifth year as it depends on the individual and some are just not ready at the end of the third year. Others are so bolshy when young, they need groundwork starting much earlier, but I never back or put tack on until late in the third year, regardless of size, breed or type.

I will also say this...I have backed and started a hell of a lot of horses and ponies and it is always worth remembering that even at four or five, they are still not physically fully mature, so even if you back or bring back into work later, you still have to go by the Individual and resist the temptation to do too much too soon.

We might want to get riding ASAP...but the horses needs should always come before ours, so I think it is crucial to be patient and wait for them to be ready.

My system (which will be flexible as not all horses are the same) is generally, through backing, 3 days on, 2 days off. They get the benefit of consistency over 3 consecutive days, but then the time to chill and absorb the lesson.

I am not an expert and I have a lot to learn...hope I always believe that...but I also have quite strong opinions on not rushing horses or making things stressful.

Your question is a valid and good one...put simply, it can be more stressful for a young horse to have to learn these lessons when they are more self confident and argumentative than when they are still open and impressionable. Hope that makes sense.
 
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I think everyone with a young horse needs to read Dr. Debs 'ranger' article. The last part of a horses skeleton to mature, regardless of breed, size or 'maturity', is the spine.....and that is the part we sit on.....and this doesn't happen until horse is aged 5/6.....for every year you give them at the start of their life you gain 3/4 years at the end....consquently my ponies are handled from birth but not backed/ridden until 5/6....at which time it is a non event!!! Then probably retire around 29/30 years old.....
 
My horse was started at 5 1/2 and it was better as in his mind he was still 3, but had the growth to be more able to carry someone without the worry of his back. Im going to hack and take him out o local shows for the sxperience and turn him away for a few months during the winter. Think that for him its better to have left him later. And also my personal choice - hes been broken slowly, professionally and experiencdx as much as possi le. Cant wait to get him home now :)
 
I done both my youngsters (one im doin now) in there 4th year andi dont turn away i just take it easy in the first year and no jumping until late of there 5th year. Never had any problems with either of them.
 
I didn't turn my horse away and she is still going strong at 18 with never a days lameness in her life. She started her polo cross and eventing career age 16 with her teenage rider, she was never ridden hard with me and mainly hacked/dressage/low level endurance. She was the only one I had, if I'd had something else to ride I may have turned her away who knows.

With everything, it depends on the horse.
 
Thanks for your replies. I didn't think about them being a bit weaker so not as able to mess around as much. My cob is quite Bolshey so I definitely want to start the basics of backing this year. I've recently had a baby though and want to loose my baby weight before getting on him.
 
I tend to back as a late 3yro (literally long reining around some quiet hacks and then sit on and hack 2 or 3 times), then they are turned away until late spring of 4yro year.

Mainly as 1. It is easier to do youngsters when the evenings are light, I like to hack them not school so need daylight to work them. 2. They will grow and mature over the winter.

I also give mine 4/5 months off in the winter between their 4yro year and them turning 5, for the same reasons as above.

Horses don't finish skeletal development until they are 6years old, so the only way to back when fully mature is to wait until then.
However, I then find they are much harder to get fit and to get the muscle and topline needed to work, compared to those who do light work for the previous 2 years in cycles.

I've never understood people who back early because the horse is weaker and can't fight back as much- that's not the way I like to back my horses and however weak your 3yro is, he will still be far stronger than you!
I actually do it the other way, and the bigger the horse, the longer I leave them before the initial 'work'.
My now 6yro is over 18hh and has been taken a lot slower than my others because of his size.
 
Absolutely Millitiger.

The bigger the horse, the longer I leave it.

Also agree about the age and weakness thing. For me, it is the right time mentally. As for weakness...any horse I back will be in a good and strong enough state through groundwork, long reining and in hand work to cope with the light backing.

I also do a second turn away for some horses. But nothing I work with does any heavy, taxing or stressful work until 6 or 7.
 
Im no expert, having only just done my first youngster, but I backed him last year about 2months before he turned 4. I rode him for 6 months. We then hit a patch where we were getting worse and worse, he was slow, seemed lazy, and I was struggling with steering and basic stuff. The more I tried to fix it the worse we got (he'd done long reining, lunging etc and been great for a while when backed)
I decided to turn away over winter. Hes been back in "work" for 3 weeks now. Hes forward going, responsive, steering and all basic stuff is TONS better. Hes just grown up so much over the time he was turned away
Was definitely the best thing I could have done for him :D
 
I back at four, establish basics, W/T/C and polework. Also get horse happy hacking in company and alone then at end of summer turn away with the odd hack perhaps in winter if weather allows.

I find this give them a chance to mature and also makes sure they dont get sour.

This has worked for me over the years and will be the same template Ill use for my next one :D
 
This what I have done over many years with coming up to 200 young horses (used to run a warmblood stud). Handle and put on tack at 2 - rising 3. Lunge, back and ride 20 - 30 mins 2 - 3 days a week at 3. Continue light riding and maybe take out to a few competitions (not to compete, just to see the sights and hack around the showgrounds) for the summer of the 3 year old year. 4 year olds start to school and go to their first little competitions; 5 year olds start to jump (including the dressage horses) and go to competitions for real, etc., etc. Hopefully they've been sold by the time they are 4 anyway, but that is the way I would progress them. Obviously if they have problems we reasses, but I see NO NEED to stop-start all the time; consistant work and building up the muscles, bones and suppleness is key. Breaking 2 year olds is a waste of time - not ready mentally or physically, and anything older than 4 tends to be bolshy and oppinionated and everything is much harder mentally, for both horse and man.
 
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