Why would a breeder not register a pedigree?

[Embo]

Hi all,

I know absolutely diddly squat about breeding, studbooks or anything to do with it so hoping for some info/advice.

My horse came with a white Irish passport. No pedigree info, breed is described as IDx and was born 2009. The only lead is that he does have a breeders prefix of BVS, which after a quick Google, I found out it stands for Brosna View Stables (which checks out as previous owner details are the same breeder).

I've searched through their website & FB page and I can't find anything. There's details of other 2009 foals they had, but nothing about my horse. I sent a very polite email (of course stating how much I love him) asking for details, but nothing yes, I was hoping for a foal pic lol.

I've found a few databases and on some of them my horse comes up but everything is blank.

So my question - if they bred him (surely they did as he has their prefix), why did they not include his pedigree when they registered him? Genuine question. Because they bred too many? He wasn't up to scratch? Not their usual stamp etc?

It doesn't matter who his parents are as I love him and he does the job I need him to - just curious.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[crabbymare]

They may not have bred him and its possible they just bought him at some point and applied for the passport if the previous owner or breeder had not bothered. there are still people who breed quality horses but without recording the lineage and sadly once the horse has been through a few hands there is little likelyhood of finding it. is the date of birth in the passport within a few months of the date of the passport or was the passport dated when the horse was older?

 

[bakewell]

Unless he's a performance horse, assuming he's a gelding, there's less incentive to record his breeding. He's not going to pass it on; he's more of a standalone prospect. It might just be laziness, time constraints. etc. It may be that the sire is unknown and the mare was ID... purchased in foal. So many non-malicious reasons.

As stated you can add your prefix onto anything you like... look at how many Oldencraig XXX there are. Thankfully you can remove it as well.

 

[cptrayes]

I've got one with a white Irish passport too. He's on the stud website, they definitely bred him, and he DNA tests to a top class paint sire, but nothing in the passport! I've written to them asking about his mother, but no answer :'(

Odd, isn't it?

 

[Equi]

My friend takes in many mares an strays who have breeding that's unknown but if they're of decent quality shell reg them under her breeding name and that at least gives them some value as she's highly regarded.

Recently he rescued a mare and her silly as an owner died but the goal was born after they died so was never reg or named even (I named her) an she's on paper reg to my friend and dob is known and so would seem to have been bred by her but she's not if that makes sense.

 

[Embo]

Thanks all for the replies. Certainly food for thought, it could be any number of reasons... I just think it's a little sad lol.

What really annoys me is that, having extensively stalked their FB page, they have photos of another horse (born 2006, I think) that looks the spit of my horse lol. I know it could just be coincidence, but it's quite frustrating! Maybe later in the summer (when competing) I will post a photo to their page showing how well he's doing, might spark them into providing some info.

Good to know you can remove a prefix... think I will probably keep it though. Sounds better, I reckon. Though I doubt I'll ever get to the point of affiliating, so not that it matters!

Thanks again.

 

[amy_b]

Im not sure he comes on here much anymore but Eothain on here is BVS (Brosna View Stables)

 

[Rollin]

Could it simply be that the cost of registering, in a difficult market, is a disincentive to breeders.

In France the National Stud issue Origin Known passports, these may be for progeny of stallions not approved by stud books. I know from my own experience that full stud book registration involves high grading costs then years of performance.

I am told that more and more people opt for OC passports. Sire and Dame are known and shown on the passport, but no DNA test is required, no requirement to pay fees to a breed society. It is a lot cheaper and if the horse is of quality it can still compete in most competitions.

 

[popsdosh]

Unless he's a performance horse, assuming he's a gelding, there's less incentive to record his breeding. He's not going to pass it on; he's more of a standalone prospect. It might just be laziness, time constraints. etc. It may be that the sire is unknown and the mare was ID... purchased in foal. So many non-malicious reasons.

As stated you can add your prefix onto anything you like... look at how many Oldencraig XXX there are. Thankfully you can remove it as well.

You cannot remove a breeders prefix as it is part of the horses registered name. I dont know a breed society that will change a horses name if the prefix is registered.

 

[bakewell]

You cannot remove a breeders prefix as it is part of the horses registered name. I dont know a breed society that will change a horses name if the prefix is registered.

Ok, to be more specific, for this horse; which is an IDx; not a specific breed society/ purebred horse; ie not registered with a breed society and that merely has a passport: you can change the prefix. The original name is included in brackets after the change of name. It's not a pedigree or breed certificate that we are discussing in this example.

I agree with you for breed societies/ breeder prefixes but that's not relevant here as this horse is of unknown parentage (based on information given)

 

[popsdosh]

Its passport will have to be sent back to the PIO to change its name it is then up to them if they will! You cannot arbitrarily change a passport name as you wish.
This horse still has a white passport which is still official but just means that it parentage cannot be verified for whatever reason. As far as I am aware if the prefix is included as part of the name this cannot be removed.
Some of the disciplines are now allowing a prefix or suffix to be added in the competing name however the original name in the passport including any prefix has to be included.

 

[sywell]

There is clear evidence that some Irish dealers could sell a horse as unknown pedigree but could not sell warmbloods so they applied for a passports as a horse of unknown breedng. This happened to Red Baron who was a Hanoverian passported horse called Meister and was a sucessful eventer. I can quote other examples and the last one the Irish Horse Board sorted out as the new owner wanted to breed from the mare who was a sucsseful eventer and was a pedigree Hanoverian..

 

[Violet]

Red Baron who was a Hanoverian passported horse called Meister and was a sucessful eventer.

I believe Red Baron was bred in the UK and then sold to Ireland. He is by the now deceased Hanoverian stallion Medoc. According to Eventing Ireland he was still eventing in the spring of this year by Jane Hannigan.

 

[sywell]

I do not think I would be popular for naming the the person who purchased him from the Breeder in Norfolk and took him to Ireland with his passport.