why would a judge say this about my horse!

pheobee

pheobee

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hi everyone,

just got back from a showing show today with my mare, and tbh i'm quite annoyed!
so any way pheobee was foot perfect couldn't have done anything better, even extended trot she did beautifully, my mum was outside and everyone was saying to her she was the clear winner (not be cocky i thought so aswell)
so we are put into the line up and i'm last, was gutted!
so after the next class had finished mum asked the judge what i did wrong, and she said nothing she was foot perfect, however she is not what we are looking for at this centre, she has bad conformation and to upright!
i was just confused and hoping someone could explain to me what this is all about! (the people next to us said this was all rubbish, oh and in the ring the judge didn't really know much as she said i had a lovely connemara, where i had to correct her saying she is andalusian!)

here are some pics, i'm so confused please can anyone help?

pheobeehorse


pheobeehorse


sorry for long question!
 
What class were you doing? Even if the horse was "foot-perfect" as you said, if the confo was bad then I would agree with the judge in marking you down. Same goes for any horse.
 
What class was it?

Unfortunately showing is subjective - just remember her name and avoid in the future - although the 'this centre' comment is strange.

Another day it will be different :)
 
i found that strange aswell, about his centre. i was doing riding horse, i found it very strange that in my opinion some of the other horses looked more like hacks. I don't see why all of a sudden she has bad conformation as she has won two championships in riding horse class
 
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What was the Class? If a showing class and your horse has less ideal conformation (in the opinion of the judge)than the others, then obviously you will be put down.
 
moana said:
What was the Class? If a showing class and your horse has less ideal conformation (in the opinion of the judge)than the others, then obviously you will be put down.
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riding horse, i find it strange that other top judges say she has brilliant conformation!
 
I looked at photos of horse, and confo seems pretty good - although obviously quite hard to tell with saddle on etc.

Unfortunately showing is subjective, and the judge may have been making an excuse - for example, said judge may just not have wanted to admit that she doesn't like greys (I have known this to happen before).

Unfortunately the exact same thing happened a fellow competitor in one of my worker classes a few weeks ago. The horse was a lovely skewbald, and I though it would have won the class but instead it came last. Judge must simply not have liked coloureds.

This is why I don't show all year round - the winter workers league is quite enough for me! :D
 
yes, i think she was as everyone said she was talking rubbish! when my mum went to talk to her she said she didn't seem to know what she was talking about. But oh well i guess it's just what the judge likes, i'm just glad she was well behaved for her first show in a double bridle.
 
Just showing unfortunatly (and the reason we only do the odd bit for fun otherwise I think I would get rather disheartened!) - if she was foot perfect then maybe head for dressage instead - then you can get rewarded for her trying so hard!
 
I wouldn't take it to heart. One of my Trakehner mares has been top of the line in a hack class one day and then a few weeks later propping up the end of the line, under the same judge so that is even more baffling. Both times went foot perfect although in our case it was probably due to being in a really strong class of established horses when we were in our first season so it probably showed wereas when we won we were in against weaker competition.

I have also been told in the past to stick to dressage with my Trakehner as she isn't what they look for in a hack class when she had won numerous times previous and overheard telling a steward that she didn't like WB types in hack classes and especially not one that was branded so it is all down to opinions.
 
Different judges prioritise different factors when it comes to showing classes. At local shows (without allocated % marks for conformation/type/way of going) Judges tend to sway toward what they regard more important in a showing class, sometimes this means that horses with excellent conformation but not great behaviour are placed highly, and other times it is the other way around.
Obviously your judge feels that type is more important than way of going, therefore even if your mare went beautifully, and others in the class perhaps didn’t, she is going to place the horse that she feels is the correct ‘Type’ for that class, regardless of there conformation relevant to there breed standard.
I’m probably going to get shot down in flames here, but you say that your mare is an andalusian? They have very unique conformation, compared to the typical riding horse type that are usually Tb/PBA e.c.t. She may very well have excellent conformation for the requirements of her breed, (and she looks beautiful in the pictures) However, in a riding horse class, your horse is not judged for its confirmation relevant to its own breed society standards, but rather purely as its suitability as a riding horse in comparison to the other horses in the class.
 
If your mare is an Andalusian, then she is not the correct "type" for a riding horse class, sorry.
http://www.theshowring.co.uk/riding_horses.php

She may have gone beautifully, but is not in the right class sorry, even presuming you had him turned out correctly (ribbon browband, pulled tail, plaited) :) and if she has the high knee action which they sometimes have, which is also "frowned" upon in these classes :)

Hope you don't take offence at this, no idea at the confo but she could be referring to the short neck which they commonly have, whereas one of the requirements of a riding horse is a good length of rein for comfort :)

I think Andalusian are lovely :)
 
Agree basically with Only_Me above. I don't know if you are competing at local shows or a higher level, but if at local then lots of differing criteria apply. Some judges will take 'Riding Horse' to mean any horse suitable for general riding and not take real 'type' into consideration, and just judge on performance and conformation for general purposes - which is often the only option at local level were there may not always be any true Riding Horse types in a Riding Horse class. However, some judges will judge more akin to affiliated level, where the most importance is given to 'trueness to type' and in that case an Andalusian that is typical of the breed is not likely to be a true Riding Horse type.

If your horse is a good example of an Andulasian, then Foreign Breeds classes locally they may be a better bet.
 
I shouldnt worry about it too much but just avoid this Judge.

Many years ago I was looking after a top class show hunter which not only would win his class but the championship at county shows. One day we went to a small show in Devon and competed in the lightweight hunter class. He came 2nd to an ex point to pointer who had beed fired and his legs were terrible. We then went on to the Royal Cornwall show where he was came away with the Championship.
 
Judges are human, no matter how good your show, presentation, turnout and manners are, they always have a prefernce for a type of horse and sometimes they are blind to other types. I have a horse which some judges adore and others don't even give him the time of day, no matter how good his confirmation, performance is. I now choose my shows as to who is judging, there is no point in doing all the hard graft if they don't like your horse, it is wasting your time and money and also disheartening. Frustrating though it is, it is a fact of life. :eek:
 
TGM said:
Agree basically with Only_Me above. I don't know if you are competing at local shows or a higher level, but if at local then lots of differing criteria apply. Some judges will take 'Riding Horse' to mean any horse suitable for general riding and not take real 'type' into consideration, and just judge on performance and conformation for general purposes - which is often the only option at local level were there may not always be any true Riding Horse types in a Riding Horse class. However, some judges will judge more akin to affiliated level, where the most importance is given to 'trueness to type' and in that case an Andalusian that is typical of the breed is not likely to be a true Riding Horse type.

If your horse is a good example of an Andulasian, then Foreign Breeds classes locally they may be a better bet.
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What she said!:)

Riding club horse might be a better option as it is generally more likely to be based on performance. Or, as said, breed classes.

Or just dont bother to show and go do some dressage!:)
 
After looking at your photos I think your mare is gorgeous and you should be very proud of her. Dont let this judge put you down, showing is a strange world...thats why I don't do it...too subjective and down to someones opinion!

I once had a judge say to me many years ago, when I was the only horse who did a clear in a open workers class then put me 4th whereby the one which won had had a refusal at the double, "well I dont like greys and she is too large for you!"
(I could ride her & jumped her to foxhunter BSJA, she was 17hh), That comment put me off showing for life!
 
Unfortunately I do find showing ( what ever level yuo do) very much a matter of personal choice, from the judges point of view. And local showing can be worse with 'favourite ' or well known people/horses being placed above others for that very reason. One judge placed my daughters horse below another in a pony club show saying that he wasn't going forward enough when the one that was placed above him had to be chased to get it to move! Lots of tales like that.

We have come home disheartened on occasions but you learn to moved on. We only show for fun and pick and choose shows that aren't too ' cliquey' Tomorrow is another day and I'm sure you're pony will shine as she is very lovely.
 
Lovely horse.

Have to echo a few others though. Riding horse is a type, as is a hack and both are usually TB or mostly TB. That is the stamp of horse judges expect to see in riding horse classes.
 
computer just deleted what i had written!

anyway


dont take it too personally,


my old pony was a new forest with perfect conformation
my instructor is a very very good judge and she agreed

he was champion at ponies uk in 2003
I took him to a my pony club show in the moutain and moorland ridden class
I came last behind some rather poor shetlands,
this was a new pony club to me and the winners were quite friendly with the judge !

Anyway judges all have personal preference to breeds, colour etc
There was one judge i always hoped for and she loved my pony and i was always placed highly
and there were other judges i would wish i didnt get as maybe they didnt like new forests!
 
pheobee said:
it's seems weird though that your saying she isn't the right type, but she's won so many championships?!
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What championships? And where were you today? Local showing can be a bit hit and miss. I'm not denying she has, just that at most big shows you expect to see TBs in riding horse classes.

Deffo don't take it personally anyway. Showing is a funny old business and she really is lovely.
 
he's lovely :)

i'm not i'm still goign to carry on with showing as this is the first time i have been placed lower than 3rd place lol!

safe, sunshine, then the championships you get at the end of shows :)
 
pheobee said:
he's lovely :)

i'm not i'm still goign to carry on with showing as this is the first time i have been placed lower than 3rd place lol!

safe, sunshine, then the championships you get at the end of shows :)
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Were you at an affiliated show today??? Or was it an unaffiliated riding club show? The championships you have been qualifying for are low level unaffiliated. You have a very nice horse but she is not a "Riding horse" type.
 
Andalusians and warmbloods are not traditional riding horses. Your horse may have correct conformation for an Andalusian but not for a RH. Andulusians often have a very different way of going as well.

It may be in other RH classes that none of the horses in the class were true RH types and therefore you could still have been placed even if you horse was not traditionally a RH type if it was more like a RH type than the other horses. For example if I entered my new forest in the same class and my friend entered her cob you would beat us even if your horse was not correct for a RH as you would be nearer the RH type than me even though we were all incorrect. The judge goes for nearest to type and how well you might do would depend on the competition and how true to type they are. Did the judge ride?

What championships has she won before? I would not give up showing maybe you are just in the wrong class.
 
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this was a trailblazers qualifier.

weel would i be able to do wh then? the maint hing i wanted to know was what she meant by too upright?
 
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