Why would you .......

Tack insured as a standard on the policy?

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burtondog

burtondog

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breed from a mare with problems ?????

Normally I just ignore most posts along the lines of - my mare's broken / grumpy / basically unridable etc so I'm thinking about breeding from her instead - but today I've decided to bite.

It seems to me, it's relatively expensive to breed a foal when compared to the price the majority of youngsters / horses actually sell for. So why would you breed from anything other than a mare of good character and / or quality ?

Too often I read on here - I've bought a 'project' mare but it bucks / rears / is lazy / over sensitive and so on - they've usually checked saddle / teeth /back so are basically left with confirmation or temperement being at fault. At some point in the post either the OP or someone else will mention the idea of breeding from said mare as it can't really be ridden.

why oh why oh why.
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Runs for cover
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Your opinions ?
 
I agree 100% with you. I know some poeple think ahhh can't PTS so I know breed.

I think that is the stupidest thing in the world when you have a mare with proven faults, hardly fair on the foal and completely unehtical IMHO. It drives me insane with people who have that kind of attitude. Whats going to happen to the foal in 5 years time when it develops problems (I'm not saying they all do) there is enough uncertainty in genetics without adding known issues in there too.

Sorry - can you tell its a bug bare of mine??
 
I would only breed from a 'broken' mare if it fits all of the below...
1 - it was broken through an freak accident, that wasn't caused by it's own neuroticism, or its injury was not inherited
2 - it couldn't be used in any other sphere, for example, as a companion
3 - I had been planning the breed it anyway
4 - it had as near to perfect as possible conformation, breeding and manners
5 - it would breed a desirable foal, that would be worth more than it cost to look after the mare through pregnancy
 
I also agree, if you cant ride your horse due to behavioural issues - why would you wan to risk creating another...?

i do think however, there probably are occasions where a 'difficult' mare could be considered for breeding, but she would have to be exceptional performance wise with as near perfect confirmation as possible!
 
I suppose alot of behavourial problems are brought about by incorrect handling so will not neccesarily be reproduced in the foal. However when there are so many horses for sale for less than the cost of breeding one that don't have problems, why would you take the risk?
 
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As my father likes to say about some of the people around where he lives, "Sh!te can only come from sh!te!"

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Very true saying from your old man! And very adapt!!!
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Neither of those options.

We are planning on breeding from a mare with no known ability- she is unbroken, but looks smashing. No reason why should couldn't be broken, but we want her as a brood mare.

And we bred from a shetty who was too nervous to be ridden, and needed extreemly careful handling. She was beaten up to make her like, and had great inhand results, and our boy was more than confident, and sure enough the foal had a decent temperament, and top class results.
 
Ha ! I am the one vote for the any old thing!

Quite a few of the freaky show jumpers wouldn't exist with your draconian teutonic approah to breeding!

Maybe we shouldn't breed for fashion - in which case why the hell are all these pikey coloured being bred??? FFS

Tie the tubes on the lower classes in humans too???? Sure as hell breeding lots of shite!!!!!
 
I'm confused by this as well - most people would leap at your throat if you said you wanted to breed your aggressive mongrel to get some cute puppies to sell, but it's perfectly okay to do it with a mare?
 
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I would only breed from a 'broken' mare if...

2 - it couldn't be used in any other sphere, for example, as a companion
3 - I had been planning the breed it anyway


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I agree with every point except these 2. But I'm not sure if you mean and, it has good confo, temp etc and can't be used for anything else?

I would never breed just because there was nothing else to do with the mare and I would never plan to breed from a mare until it had proven it's temprament and was being ridden.

An exception might be a well put together horse that is lovely in hand but some freak accident happened prior to it being backed and it could not be ridden, I would probably consider breeding from it and take the risk that it might not have been the best ridden horse.
 
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I'm confused by this as well - most people would leap at your throat if you said you wanted to breed your aggressive mongrel to get some cute puppies to sell, but it's perfectly okay to do it with a mare?

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Yes and look where that has got the kennel club - inbred bunch of freaky examples of breeds with serious health problems. Long live the mongrels!
 
MeowKiss - A mare with a previously good / proven track record that gets broken in an accident is a different thing. In this instance, I'm talking about mares that have NEVER shown any real talent or rideability.

montyandzoom - you're right in that some bad behavior could be the result of poor handling but it's so hard to guage the effect of this. I suppose the only way you might justify bredding in this instance would be if the mare in question has a number of 'quality' full siblings.

hellspells - this is a subject that makes my blood boil! Did you see Danny Dyer on TV today (one of those daytime chat shows) ?
 
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I only buy mares that for one reason or another are worth breeding from, therefore if they become 'broken' it is by freak accident/injury and have an option B to their career.
Conformation and breeding pay huge role in my choices, not so much temperament but manners.
I believe that well behaved, trainable foal is more a case of nurture that nature. For example I have a neurotic mare of fantastic type and conformation, brilliant mover and excellent jumper, she is mad, but respectful to humans and VERY well mannered - she produced the most delightful offspring, because from day one her foals are shown that humans should be respected and abided.
 
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Quite a few of the freaky show jumpers wouldn't exist with your draconian teutonic approah to breeding!


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Agreed but more and more (normal) people are leaving the country to bring in good showjumpers or turning to stud to buy them and bring them on.

I think in the good old days there was a market for insane, badly put together horse that could jump out their skin but the price of WB meat has come right down and you can get a well bred phsycopath that looks really flashy for not much extra.

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Maybe we shouldn't breed for fashion - in which case why the hell are all these pikey coloured being bred??? FFS


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Can't wait for this fashion craze to stop, I blame the Americans with their fancy paint horses, it's like solid chestnut just doesn't cut it anymore it has to have patches
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[uote]Tie the tubes on the lower classes in humans too???? Sure as hell breeding lots of shite!!!!!

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LOL if only we could
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kidding!
 
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hellspells - this is a subject that makes my blood boil! Did you see Danny Dyer on TV today (one of those daytime chat shows) ?

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Damn no I didn't.

But this is a very immotive subject and I remember a very heated post recently where someone had brought a cronic bolted who in the end she decided to PTS (she was aware of situation when purchased etc) and people started suggesting breeding from it and not seeing why this was a stupid and potentially lethal thing to do.
 
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For example I have a neurotic mare of fantastic type and conformation, brilliant mover and excellent jumper, she is mad, but respectful to humans and VERY well mannered - she produced the most delightful offspring, because from day one her foals are shown that humans should be respected and abided.

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I have one of those too
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I have never bred from her as I would always worry her fruit loop ways would be passed on but she wasn't back til she was 8 (as she was so highly strung they were not sure she would be suitable for ridden work) so they took 3 foals off her. All of which turned out to be laid back anglo arab (well as laid back as they can be)
 
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Ha ! I am the one vote for the any old thing!

Quite a few of the freaky show jumpers wouldn't exist with your draconian teutonic approah to breeding!

Maybe we shouldn't breed for fashion - in which case why the hell are all these pikey coloured being bred??? FFS

Tie the tubes on the lower classes in humans too???? Sure as hell breeding lots of shite!!!!!

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On the contrary - I competely agree with the breeding of some of what you call 'pikey coloureds'. Many of these make great horses, I'm only suggesting that whatever the 'type' of horse, basic conformation and temperement should be known to be good before breeding on.

I promise I'm no horse snob. I love the freaks but they are the rarity not the norm otherwise you wouldn't refer to them as such.

As for 'tie the tubes of the lower classes' where did that come from ? We're just talking about horses here, not social engineering
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With every problem mare post..no matter how dangerous the horse and without of course seeing any photos to look at conformation or without knowing whether the owner has the experience/time or money for a foal, someone will always, without fail suggest breeding...it's frustrating.
 
At the risk of causing controversy here...

Generally, I would breed from a mare that is "broken" if I want certain qualities of that mare for an offspring that I would keep for myself.

My mare has pulled a stifle ligament, and whilst she is young, and thus, things look more positive for her, we don't know whether she is going to come sound properly or go as far as I hoped she would. However, she is perfectly fine otherwise, and doesn't take much notice of the damaged stifle - she isn't lame in walk, looks fine on the field after rest, and only starts having problems when she is schooled. I wouldn't PTS her simply because of that. At the same time, she likes to have a job, and has sort of told me in one way or another that she'd love to have a foal.

She has good bloodlines, looks very nice (something that I'd like her to pass on to her foal) -, but is hot-tempered if not in the right hands (or on boxrest!!!). Basically, if I didn't buy her as a 2.5-year-old and she had no injury, she would be a little bit out of my league financially. I'd only breed her to a stallion that can better her - one with a calm temperament, fantastic conformation, very good hindleg, etc. And most likely, I'd keep the foal for myself.

I can understand that you should not breed if you know that the mare had a disease or fault that is likely to be passed on to the foal. But if it isn't genetical, why not??? Especially if you are keeping the foal for yourself?

Also, in terms of temperament - what is "hot-tempered" for one, is "talented and exciting" for another. We wouldn't have many of our famous, record-setting Olympic horses, if we always bred to have the sweetest temperament available. Sorry, but I would not be interested in watching the Olympics if that meant watching plodders go over jumps - something that I could watch at a local riding school.

Shutterfly, for example, would not exist! When he was bred, other breeder told his breeder that it wasn't a good decision to make. According to them, he was breeding an "unridable" horse... and for a while Shutterfly lived up to the image. However, Meredith has a lot of success with him now and they even created his full brother "Sir Shutterfly", just so that they could breed a horse just like him.

Ironically, whether it be dressage or show jumping... it is often the more hot-tempered horses that succeed. This is because what we call "hot-tempered" is really just a horse that shows off. That's what all those dressage movements are about... horses showing off.

Oh, and if I wanted to buy a horse with similar breeding to the one I would want... (my mare + superb stallion), I'd have to probably spend a LOT more than I would have to spend on AI, etc.

ETS: I do agree though, certain humans should not breed... unfortunately, that's out of my power.
 
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I wouldn't go so far as to vote for your second option, but I wouldn't rule out breeding from a less than perfect mare.

I categorically wouldn't breed from anything dangerous or anything with an unexplained vice/bad habit/lameness problem, or any glaring conformation issues. However, there is a market for the bog standard sweet tempered all rounder with a few minor conformational weaknesses; not everyone wants something flashy or super talented.
 
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I'm confused by this as well - most people would leap at your throat if you said you wanted to breed your aggressive mongrel to get some cute puppies to sell, but it's perfectly okay to do it with a mare?

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Yes and look where that has got the kennel club - inbred bunch of freaky examples of breeds with serious health problems. Long live the mongrels!

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OT a little, but there is no excuse for breeding from an aggressive dog, ever, pure breed or not and I can give you plenty of examples why.
 
I had a mare that went on permanent loan as a broodmare, she was very well bred and was the last female offspring of a very successful stallion. She was bred by a friend and stolen as a foal and when recovered was badly injured and quite screwed up mentally. She show jumped up to grade B before her injury caught up with her, I then competed he up to elemantary in dressage. She was always quirky and could be very difficult. She bred 3 lovely fillies who all went on to event up to Intermediate. She was put down at the age of 15 when she became too lame to continue even in retirement. Many said she should not have been used to breed but her "issues" had a cause that were not genetic which was proven with her offspring.
 
What's that saying....."Bad horses are made, not born?"

Surely just because the mare may be a bit grumpy, it doesn't necessarily mean the foal will be an ill mannered oik too?
 
The best bred horse can become a nightmare with bad handling,just as a nightmare horse can come good with the right handling.
What "quirks" you are prepared to put up with depends on the results the horse gets...I doubt many would think Shutterfly shouldnt exist because he was anightmare to handle
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If a mare is broken down because of a fault in herself it is a bit silly to breed from her.If she has been broken by an accident or bad riding(pushing her too far too fast for example) then she could well still be worth breeding from.

Gah,rather then ramble on I supose I feel that anyone thinking of breeding needs to keep in mind that there are all ready far too many horses without homes and/or unable to do a job so needs to acess the mare,think carefully about what stud to put her to and breed a foal that should have a job to do when grown.
Doesnt have to be a superstar either,if every horse alive had the talent of the top horses there would be no for people to learn on!
Conformation faults in a horse that really looks after a novice can be easily forgiven,just as they can in a top class horse as long as it doesnt stop the horse doing it's job and pretty much all of us know people who hate forgiving nice horses and want something with quirks so they do have a market.
 
I quite like my "pikey coloured". Not everyone wants a top quality eventer, some of us just want a straightforward mongrel to go to RC on. I would say that alot of the problems you see on here are from people who have overhorsed themself with something with amazing bloodlines that has been bred to work at a high level but then doesn't quite succeed so ends up being sold on as a happy hack to a novice.

Yes D doesn't have perfect combination but she has amazing quality feet compared to a TB and is never sick or sorry. She'll live out all year round without rainscald, mudfever or chills.

It makes me mad when people breed from a horse with genetic defects but I think that most people riding at RC level could do much worse than a hairy mongrel from "average" parents.
 
If you have a horse (of any type) that you like, enjoy and you really want to bred another horse with the same qualities - that I get !

What I don't get is the people who say - my mare bucks, rears, bolts, I've tried everything to fix her but she's unrideable or even dangerous, I think I'll stick her in a field and breed a foal from her instead.

I'm not talking about breeding only sports horses, just horses of any breed / type that are fit for purpose.

A nice riding club 'mongrel' would be perfect for most of us, but ideally it should be one with good legs, heart, lungs, etc, who's not a total fruit loop.
 
Too often breeding from a mare is ruled by whether a person has facilities to keep the mare whilst out of work and in foal and then the offspring. Loads of decent mares are not bred from because their owners only have one horse and need it to ride.

Plus it would be a shame if all that was bred was sports horses with perfect conformation. You still need ordinary good solid horses for people who don't want to ride warmbloods that don't make the grade.

And then breeding itself is so uncertain. You can get throwbacks or nicks that work particularly well. Some stallions can improve a mare more than others. Some of the most unlikely breeding can result in a lovely horse. My friend extremely stupidly left her 4 y o mare with quite poor conformation in a field with an entire 18 month old coloured cob colt of dubious breeding. The result was a quite amazingly marked filly with excellent conformation.

When I breed from my mare, I'm hoping to find a really "hot" stallion as she is far too laid back for a real jumper. She only jumps because she wants an easy life! Yet her own dam has a horrid temperament but all her foals have physically and temperamentally taken after the 3 different sires. How many mares out there are totally perfect?
 
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