Wide Spine - Which Saddle?

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kate.l

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I have a connemara X who's proving very difficult to fit a saddle to. I had my bates close contact jumping saddle fitted to him, he seemed to go perfectly well in it - he then changed shape slightly so got a different saddle fitter out (can no longer get in touch with my old one!) and he said that the saddle is far too narrow for his spine.. It was fitted with a medium gullet, which was fine for his shoulders but not wide enough for his apparently broad spine.
I then managed to get my hands on his old saddle, from his previous owners - a Barnsby event saddle. It appeared to fit him, but got the saddler out again just to check. Again, this was too narrow for his spine - despite that fact that it was fitted to him 18months ago :confused:
So... Looks like I'll have to look for a new saddle as I'm not prepared to ride him in something that will more than likely make him sore.
Does anyone have any ideas as to which make of saddles may fit horses with a wide spine? His shoulders aren't particularly wide, the bates medium gullet was about right on him.
Thanks in advance!
 
I had this problem with my horse and ended up in a treeless. However, does your horse show any sign of discomfort? If he appears to be working well and it's only the saddler who is unhappy with the saddle I would get a second opinion before spending more money on saddles.
 
I've got a connie x tb, however build wise except for slightly longer legs she is very connie like. I've found jeffries fit well, & also albions. Pricey but not compared to made to measure, & can be found second hand. Plus in general for cheaper ones thorowgoods often suit that type of shape. Other option could be a wh saddle.
 
Great - thanks for replies!
Ideally I would like a saddle with an interchangeable gullet - not really a fan of wintec but I have a Bates CC Jumping saddle on my other horse, If I can get hold of another second hand one to fit him that would be an ideal situation..
He doesnt show any discomfort when he's been ridden, I'm not actually riding him at the moment becuase I don't have anything to fit him. To be honest the bates I was riding him he went fabulously in, it was only when he dropped to a winter weight did I think that it needed re-fitting..
 
How about a wow saddle? They have the option of 3 gullet widths - much wider than any other saddle I've seen nod also have interchangeable head plates from -1 up to 9, again much more variation than any other saddle. New you're looking at over 2k, but second hand you could pay £500-1000 depending on what you need.

Here's the underside of mine -

LPIC2579.jpg


That is an extra wide gullet (the widest option) with a -1 head plate (the narrowest width). As you go narrower with a wintec or bates in the head plate it closes the bullet in on the spine. The panels on the wow saddle can be set wider to allow more room for the spine if required.
 
Currently all changeable heaplate saddles are made on synthetic trees, Wow is kind of synthetic ie carbon fibre. It does mean that these trees cost a lot to develop as they need machine tooling, so they tend to be aimed at the most common shapes of horses - Wow will make up for that with their interchangable panel system - way more panel shapes than most companies ever need.

For specialist fitting there is good reason why traditional wooden trees may be used - there is far more choice and I can say from experience that it costs £70 to develop a new tree if basing it on another and making minimal changes! Do also bear in mind that most horses do nto change massively in width long term - some do, especially when the saddle is first fitted, but a new saddle with wooden tree can be adjusted a handful of times and is VERY easy to widen usually. If a horse changes every year from summer to winter then working with a good shim system is perfectly acceptable - fitting to the wider (usually summer) shape and using shims in the winter.

On gullet width, usual wisdom is that the gullet should be exactly the width of the spinal processes - for most horses between 3 and 4 fingers' width. If you go wider (except under the pommel) then you risk not supporting the weight as well as you could (you can't take the outer edge of the panels byond the muscle mass either, you'd be on the ribs, not good!) - I am intrigued as to why that Wow's gullet is massively wide from the bars to under the rider's seat, with really quite narrow panels at that point.

For fitters there is definitely a danger of some saddles being too tight in the bars, but that is usually solved by the tree being nice and wide/flat/straight as appropriate at that point (ie under the twist, by the stirrup bars) and making sure the flocking is light behind them but generally panels are pretty "straight" there - the panels on the Wow really are very different there to any other saddle I've seen.

Anyone know why they are that shape?
 
i think from reading that the farrington are renowned for having wider gaps for the spine

I have one for sale at the mo, which used to fit my 14.2 connie cross.

pm if you want more info
 
The horse that saddle was fitted to had EXTREME muscle wastage behind his shoulders - spent many years trying to build this up with traditionally flocked saddles and shimmed pads and he built a lot of muscle everywhere else, but not in the hollows by his withers. He therefore required the narrowest head plate they make with a panel with a very deep gusset. A horse that is well muscled but narrow in headplate angle will require a wider gullet to compensate for gullet narrowing with a narrower headplate. If you were to picture the shape of his back from above, he needed that extreme curve in a t the front to accommodate the massive hollows. He was an extreme example, and 6 months later when he was in a number 3 head plate (equivalent of a medium wide or wide probably) he then had a wide gullet in the saddle rather than extra wide. With a normal saddle where the panels extend much further down this narrow front and wide gullet wouldn't have worked - it would have pinch his shoulders and massively restricted him I guess, but the wow panels are short and simply filled the hollows and left his shoulders to move freely. Certainly he found it very comfortable
 
But it's the extreme gullet width in the middle that I am questioning? Even if the front were wider (and I totally get the reasons for fitting muscles wasted horses differently, though i do it with a shim pad and flocking) the middle gullet is still massively wide (five fingers?) or is the photo deceptive?
 
It is massively wide, but not quite 5 fingers, although almost. It is equally wide middle to back and just narrows at front. Simply this was what he went best in, the wide gullet (the photo is of extra wide) made him feel tense through the back. Despite massive muscle wastage at the wither, he was well muscled along his spine and behind the saddle - maybe he needed the room?
 
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