wide withered horse

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kate.l

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Having huge saddle troubles at the moment!
My Connemara X is rather an 'odd' shape, he's wide in his wither but doesnt have much shoulder - so a saddle that is wide enough to accommodate his withers ends up being far to wide on his shoulder and vice versa!
I had a very well respected saddle fitter out to fit my bates close contact jumping saddle to him, he put a medium gullet in and told me everything was fine.. didn't want to see the pony ridden or anything (which i was slightly surprised at!)
A few months down the line, the pony lost a bit of weight - a combination of bad weather and pony not being a very good doer. Couldn't get hold of the saddle fitter to re-fit so used a guy my friend swears by. He was horrified at the fit of the saddle and said it should never have been put on the pony's back, because it is close contact it would never fit his shape correctly and was putting excessive pressure on his spine...
Today I'm getting an osteopath to check everything is ok and will now have to think about a new saddle!! Just wondering if anyone had any experience of this shaped pony and what saddles worked!?
Any suggestions welcome!
 
Our 'odd' shaped horse has an Ideal with a hooped tree, which accomodates a really loaded shoulder - he has huge shoulders. Not sure if this is relevant, but I do find Ideal are great for making saddles to measure without it costing a fortune, I have used them on a couple of flat backed horses with great results.
 
I also recommend Ideal, I have used different ones on several hard to fit horses and ponies, one client had a m2m by them, again perfect fit.
 
Great thanks, he is relatively flat backed too.
He's Connemara width at his wither but has tb shoulders which appears to be a bit of a nightmare!! Will do some research on ideal - if I could have stuck with my bates that would have been the best scenario as it's adjustable and I do change my horses fairly regularly!
 
Hi Kate

Connies are an unusual shape, though New Forests can be similar. They have a wide flat wither but are not often wider than an XW fitting, and have a narrowish spine, and the ribcage, although well sprung, is nothing like the table top of some Welsh Ds, Highlands and Traditionals.

I fit natives and cobs as a speciality and find that Connies and NFs tend to need a tree that is very flat from front to back but also quite a neat tree - not too wide a head (pommel), twist or seat, but with good flat panels that sit close to the pony and allow the saddle to wrap around them.

In my experience it's very rare for these two breeds to need a hoop tree - our version is very flat though so a curvier Connie with a really well sprung ribcage (old fashioned leg at each corner type, now often overheight) might get on with one that isn't as flat as ours :). I find that a large shoulder is no problem once you get the tree and panel right - a hoop tree on a horse that doesn't need one can be very unstable as it has a lack of contact around the wither and the rest of the spine, on any horse/pony that isn't truly coffee table shaped :D. I tend to fit them only to XXW+ horses and ponies.

And if it makes you feel better the Bates wouldn't have fitted everything, and would have been very unlikely to fit your Connie - the kink in the Wintec/Bates headplate and the fact the tree isn't flat from front to back will have meant it would have been really unlikely to work.

If you can, buy from stock - you can have the saddle that you actually tried out (and try a selection, no good having someone come out with nothing that is actually a close enough and stable fit for you to ride in), you then also have it for 7 days' trial, legally (Distance Trading regulations apply if they fit your saddle away from their own premises). If you have a customised or m2m saddle, the odds aren't actually better that it will work if you read the stories of woe you can find online, plus you have only the goodwill of the company/fitter to protect you if you don't get on with the saddle.
 
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Ok - Osteopath came out this afternoon and said there wasn't any soreness in his back or wither that could have been as a result of the saddle. There were two places that were slightly out of line but he thought that this was as a result of him attempting to jump the front bar in the trailer a few weeks ago. Yes, the pony is an absolute nightmare but can jump like nothing else i've ever sat on - hence worth persevering with!!!!
Showed him my bates saddle, which has since been adjusted to fit my 16.2 ISH x Warmblood who is obviously a very different shape, so he couldn't comment on whether or not it fits him at the moment and couldn't see how it would have been a problem if it was fitted with the correct gullet...
I've got so many conflicting messages here now I'm more confused than I was in the first place :confused:
Thanks so much for the advice - it seems i'm not alone with this problem!
The saddle fitter who came the second time recommended a made to measure saddle co saddle, or a bates deep seat elevation. Can't help but think he's just chancing it and trying to sell me something else....
 
I DID miss that it was a CC jump saddle which does make things a fraction different as it will be flatter, still no fan of the headplate shape though! Tricky as it's not been fitted to the pony, but could you swap gullets and post pics? Firmly girthed, no pad, photos to show the whole horse standing square to show where and how the saddle sits, plus at least one from the shoulder, showing one side of the saddle from pommel to bottom of the flap, hopefully showing the tree angle against the ribcage, lifting the flap for one photo can be useful. Have the horse standing square with head and neck in "neutral" :).
 
Ah great - thanks I will do this at the weekend and post pics!
Osteopath today didn't seem to think he was such an 'odd' shape - he said that he was slightly wide at his wither but nothing out of the ordinary and although he doesn't have a great deal of shoulder he's not 'poor', for want of a better word!!
 
So sorry! Haven't been on here in a while and have just seen your reply.. Have posted another thread tonight - having an absolute nightmare at the moment!!
 
They're really not always easy to fit, so I'm not totally surprised, not that that helps you :(

Photos needed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9VvAvOxeTc&feature=share

Basically a conformation shot, and one taken from behind showing the back of the wither and saddle area (not the bum!). If you'd like a saddle assessment, then girth firmly with no pad, take one as per a conformation shot, then one from the head showing the shoulder and the saddle from pommel to the bottom of the flap :). If you post them in a fresh thread it is always interesting for people to see saddle fit discussions.
 
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