Will ALL horses learn to go in an outline?

[McNally]

Firstly I know some it of it is me, so i dont want to try draw reins or anything as suggested by a few friends already!
I'm spoilt by my other horse who carries himself beautifully and if he's slobbing a tiny finger movement brings him back....newer horse is bought from a riding school he is quite hard mouthed and dead to the leg and tbh i'm struggling a bit!
I've ridden him in a school and its more a case of keeping your hands a quiet as possible then after a while he will round. Now he's mine i have no school but am finding hacking a slow process! He wanders slowly with his nose out and not much i do seems to help.
I was planning on not doing any schooling til spring to let him chill out a bit as he's probably done more school work than your average horse and with random people who all would ride differently and obviously some beginners.
Id rather not get at him too much but actually he's taking the mick a little at times with his meandering! If i push him he gets quicker but his strides are still the same so it kind of feels like he may topple over!
I know he can walk out and so a lovely big trot if he see's fit!
I wondered if a couple of sessions lunging with a pessoa might encourage him to work lower and more from behind?

 

[PaddyMonty]

For me the first priority would be getting him to think forward.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

For me the first priority would be getting him to think forward.

Start from scratch. Put him in a pessoa (or similar) to help get his bottom engaged and get a physio/ osteo to help you break up the underneck muscles. lots of carrot stretches and lots of lunging with encouragement behind.

 

[Tammytoo]

How about doing some in hand work with him? I don't mean Parrelli, but just getting him to move around and away from you, backing up, yielding to pressure etc. Yielding to pressure is the key, if you can refine this on the ground then it will be easier to get him working off your leg when you start schooling. Whatever you do, don't keep nagging with your legs - he's learnt to ignore aids because in the past they weren't given clearly and consistently (hardly surprising with so many different riders) and needs to "relearn".

Is there an Intelligent Horsemanship instructor in your area? A session or two will help you get started.

 

[Bikerchickone]

I'd definitely get an osteopath involved first and then try the pessoa and lots of very slow steady work to build up muscle and learn to move away from pressure. Lots of transitions whilst schooling or hacking to help the back end engage and keep him on the ball, rather than settling into his riding school stride and going along blissfully unaware of you at all.

Do you have the same saddle the school used? If so I'd get that looked at too, because resistance in his back would encourage him to poke his nose in the air too.

I think given time and the right careful approach you'll get there in the end.

 

[diamondrockharvey]

For me the first priority would be getting him to think forward.

Excellent advise!

 

[tallyho!]

For me the first priority would be getting him to think forward.

This ^^

start like you would a young horse... long reigning would be better than lungeing for this one.

 

[McNally]

Thank you all, good advise.

No the saddle certainly didnt fit so he has a new one fitted by a saddler. It does need reflocking now and i will arrange that asap.
Highly recommended back lady is booked to come next week. Ive had him a while but didnt ride him at first due to no saddle his back was done just before i got him but not sure who by or the outcome.
Will also do some in hand stuff as since bringing him into work properly ive brought him into the stable and so notice he's not the best at "back" etc when i ask.
Another thing i wondered in the thinking forward thing was taking him up the gallops as soon as he's able. There are some locally i can use and he is an ex racer ex riding school horse! so i figured this may renew some spark!

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

There is a huge difference between going forwards and going faster.

Taking him on the gallops may bring back some spark for that hack, but unless he is schooled and his is propelling himself forwards from his hinds through his topline then you are just going to have a gallop on him, you're not addressing the underlying issues...

 

[LouS]

Agree with the others, I don't know why people are so obsessed with what the horses head is doing, that will come when he is working properly, pointless having a false outline just because it looks pretty.

You need to have him in front of your leg. Firstly get him checked out osteo/physio/vet/dentist/saddler etc. I would definitely restart him, lots of long lining (lunging with two lines) with no gadgets is brilliant for their balance and self carriage if done correctly.

Riding wise you need him super responsive to your leg. I take a schooling whip, start with halt to walk, I use the lightest of leg aids and if he doesn't walk on, flick with stick. I don't ever use a strong leg, I need a horse that goes off the slightest aid straight away then you've got a horse that is listening. Nagging will get you nowhere. For example if you're asking him to canter, as soon as he is in canter stop asking, even if he feels like he's about to fall in to trot, do not do anything at all until he actually falls into trot, otherwise he will switch off and won't bother seeing as you're going to nag him either way. That way as soon as he falls into trot you can correct him and he'll start to realise that it is his job to stay in a pace until you tell him to stop.

To supple him up do lots of lateral work in walk, leg yielding, shoulder in, flexing his neck to either side etc, you can do this in hand too. Putting all of this together and riding him with a nice soft, elastic contact he will start to build the muscles to work correctly.