Will feeding a Balancer help mud fever??

BorgRae

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Hi all!!

Ok so my lad has suffered from mud fever this winter (no surprise really I guess!), but after reading another post, someone mentioned that after feeding their horse a balancer, their horse didn't suffer anymore!

My lad is a bit on the portly side, so all he gets is haylege, happy hoof and plain chop, with 40ml's of apple cidar vinegar and garlic granuals. He's fed morning and night.

He's out on a field all day (when he doesn't have mud fever), and the grass in the field is pretty good.

He also has a vit and mineral lick in his stable for when he fancies!

He's been in for the last couple of weeks because of his mud fever, so has been going out a few times a day on to the sand paddock, which is well drained, and I've noticed he's been eating the sand and licking the wood!!

So I guess this would suggest something is missing?!

Anyhoo, the question is, do you believe feeing a balancer can reduce the risk of mud fever?? If so, will Baileys low cal balancer do the trick? Or is there a better one?

Thanks for reading, and apologies for any spelling errors (stupid phone!!)!

I can offer cream cheese bagles if you got this far!! :D xx
 
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NellRosk

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I think that if your horse has the correct vitamins and minerals that he needs then he'll have stronger immune system and be able to fend off health complaints easier so be less prone to things such as mud fever! I wouldn't bother feeding your horse garlic, happy hoof has sugar in so if your horse is tubby I'd swap that and I'd change to a chop like dengie hi fi molasses free. Good high spec balancers are the Forage Plus one and the Progressive Earth one. He definitely sounds like he's deficient in something if he's eating sand/ licking wood. :)

ETA I'll take the cream cheese bagel if it has smoked salmon in!! Mmm yummy.
 
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amandap

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Skin health is affected by mineral status so I would say it may well help and wont hurt!

With balancers you get what you pay for so choose a good quality, high spec one.
 

Diddleydoo

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It worked for mine. I feed the Forage Plus winter balancer and haven't had to deal with any mud rash at all this winter. *crosses fingers, touches wood*
 

khalswitz

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I think you definitely can see an improvement on a balancer, as it can support the immune system better having a full spec of vits and mins.

The Baileys lo cal is great for tubbies as it doesn't have many calories - the Baileys range is generally good, I remember a chart someone had devised on here one day that had compared Baileys, D&H, Top Spec, Spillers etc balancers, and Baileys was one of the best for low starch and sugar levels int heir balancer, and by cost per amount you have to feed. I personally use their Stud balancer to great effect.

I agree with the previous poster about cutting the Happy Hoof though - try something unmolassed instead. And remember haylage can be very high energy compared to hay, so you might benefit weight wise from switching to hay is possible, or soaking your haylage. Also, garlic isn't proven to do anything useful - and you can poison horse by over feeding, so I would personally cut that too. But a balancer could be a great alternative.
 

BorgRae

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Thank you so much for your replies, I didn't realise garlic was useless!! How annoying! I've just bought a HUGE tub of it! I'll see if I can take it back! Lol!

So we're thinking come off the happy hoof, replace with a different chop and go for the Balancer!

So, is there going to be a massive difference in the Forage plus one and the Baileys one? I've just called all my local tack shops and none of them do the forage plus, but one is looking to see if they can order it in, but they all have Baileys, top spec, blue chip and day son and hewitt...

Any recommendations? So far it seems that Baileys is the way forward? :)
 

amandap

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Good to stop the garlic, all my reading leads me to believe it has too many negative effects to be of any benefit to horses.

If the FP is too expensive (very high spec) look at Pro balance on ebay or Equimins advance complete. The FP ad Pro balance don't have added iron which is usually in excess in diet and or drinking water and excess can interfere with absorption of other minerals.
 

khalswitz

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Bailey's low cal has low levels of all the vits and mins required so you would be better getting Pro Balance off Progressive Earth on their eBay shop :)

Low-ER. If you have good quality haylage and grazing, you can be over-supplementing vits and mins with a full RDA supp/balancer. I use Feed XL to work mine out exactly, and with a Baileys balancer linked to my forage analysis, I'm slightly OVER on a few vits and mins, certainly not under. And my EPSM lad has higher requirements for certain mins as well.

Remember the whole diet.

The biggest problem with a balancer is the protein levels for a fatty, really.
 

NellRosk

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Low-ER. If you have good quality haylage and grazing, you can be over-supplementing vits and mins with a full RDA supp/balancer. I use Feed XL to work mine out exactly, and with a Baileys balancer linked to my forage analysis, I'm slightly OVER on a few vits and mins, certainly not under. And my EPSM lad has higher requirements for certain mins as well.

Remember the whole diet.

The biggest problem with a balancer is the protein levels for a fatty, really.

Ah, when I had my boy on it his feet were awful and I checked and it seemed to have a really low spec. Changed to Pro Balance and his white line separation has gone completely!
 

khalswitz

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Ah, when I had my boy on it his feet were awful and I checked and it seemed to have a really low spec. Changed to Pro Balance and his white line separation has gone completely!

I think there's an attitude that one balancer/supp must be the BEST, because it works for one person. I find Baileys Stud works wonders for my lad, but there's no way I'd recommend it for a different horse, as he needs the super high protein levels for his muscle problems. To be sure which vit/min spectrum suits your horse best, it's either trial and error, or getting a full soil and forage analysis.

When we did ours before, I was really surprised how good our ground was, and how little we really needed to supplement. Other people will find they have specific ground deficiencies, and need a balancer that complements that.

The companies themselves tend to go for a 'put in EVERYTHING' or 'try and see what on average needs supplemented the most' approach. Hence the variety in vit/min spectra. But it is a very individual requirement, even working to RDAs.

I've heard very good things about Pro Balance, but I also know one lady up here who was visited by a nutritionist, who told her to STOP feeding Pro Balance as her horse was being way over supplemented by the time they took into account forage etc. She switched to just supplementing two individual minerals I believe instead.
 

amandap

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The proteins in balancers such as FP ad Pro Earth are amino acids such as lysine which is typically deficient in grass and hays and the horse can't make in the body. Methionine is next on the list. FP and I believe Pro Earth ones are based on typical forage deficiencies in UK so are imho a good choice if you have problems and can't get forages tested and feed bespoke minerals.
 

Diddleydoo

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Ahhh, I see! Ok brill, I shall order online and got for the Forage Plus or the Pro balance :)

Thanks very much everyone!! Much appreciated :D

Good idea, I hope it works well for you.

You may also find that as an added advantage your horse will magically develop "naturally good feet" ;-)
 

khalswitz

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The proteins in balancers such as FP ad Pro Earth are amino acids such as lysine which is typically deficient in grass and hays and the horse can't make in the body. Methionine is next on the list. FP and I believe Pro Earth ones are based on typical forage deficiencies in UK so are imho a good choice if you have problems and can't get forages tested and feed bespoke minerals.

Just to play devil's advocate :p Baileys too contains lysine as the main AA (being the first limiting amino acid it's the one most of them use!!) and comes in at the same protein content as FP - 16%. Also the FP pathway pushes getting forage, soil AND water analysed to pick the correct balancer, I'm sure - I've read their website before. Not like Baileys etc who are more 'here's a rough balancer'.
 

criso

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Two of the key minerals which will help are Zinc and Copper. These are good for hair/skin/feet and also support the immune system.

Both of these tend to be low in UK forage and grazing and Iron and Manganese prevent their uptake. The latter tend to be high. So ideally you would want a balancer that has reasonable levels of zinc and copper but no Iron or Manganese.

Which is where Forageplus and Progressive earth come in. Pro hoof/balance delivers 175mg of copper and 575mg Zinc, Forageplus 400mg and 1200mg so depending on how deficient your grazing is, you may find one better than the other.

One word of warning, as these have no additives or flavourings or sugars they tend not to be as palatable as some others so you should introduce them very slowly. It took me weeks to get my fussy tb to eat them. ( as opposed to the greedy one who eats anything) but I started very with tiny amounts and built up and now he licks the bowl clean.

Also waste disposal tb is very prone to mud fever, he has been much better on the minerals but still gets it sometimes. Just not as often and not so severely.

Great spreadsheet btw, just need to add the fp and pro earth ones.
 

criso

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I've heard very good things about Pro Balance, but I also know one lady up here who was visited by a nutritionist, who told her to STOP feeding Pro Balance as her horse was being way over supplemented by the time they took into account forage etc. She switched to just supplementing two individual minerals I believe instead.

I carried out a forage analysis at a few yards with differing results but there was a pattern.

At all I have had to supplement magnesium, copper, zinc, selenium . At 4 out of 5, phosphorous and at one Iodine.

Not a million miles away from what is in the pro balance/fp though I feed higher rates knowing what my forage lacks.
 

amandap

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Just to play devil's advocate :p Baileys too contains lysine as the main AA (being the first limiting amino acid it's the one most of them use!!) and comes in at the same protein content as FP - 16%.
I'm sure all balancers contain lysine or should do, I am not familiar with most these days. I was just responding to the general comment about high levels of protein.

I do believe bespoke minerals/diet plans have a big place when there are severe problems and of course if you're minted! If you don't get diet as good as is possible you may find you have more vet and other fees in the longer term.
 

criso

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I think it's easy to see 16% and worry about protein in a balancer but you have to keep it in perspective. That's 16% of something like a little 50ml supplement scoop depending on feeding rates.

Unmolassed Sugarbeet has 9% and you might be feeding half a scoop, unsoaked, hay could have depending on the cut between 5 and 10% and think how much your horse eats of that, it's clear to see where most of the protein in the diet is going to come from.
 

amandap

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I think it's easy to see 16% and worry about protein in a balancer but you have to keep it in perspective. That's 16% of something like a little 50ml supplement scoop depending on feeding rates.
This too as well as the type of protein.
 

khalswitz

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I carried out a forage analysis at a few yards with differing results but there was a pattern.

At all I have had to supplement magnesium, copper, zinc, selenium . At 4 out of 5, phosphorous and at one Iodine.

Not a million miles away from what is in the pro balance/fp though I feed higher rates knowing what my forage lacks.

Ah, well up here we aren't selenium deficient - one of the few places that aren't I believe. For us it's phosphorus, which when you consider the number of people these days who feed large amounts of alfalfa and sugar beet (high calcium) this can be an issue. There was a period on my old yard where all I needed to supplement in summer was phosphorus (very slightly deficient in copper but it was sheep grazing, the preserved forage however wasn't copper deficient), so just added wheat bran rather than anything fancy. However new yard is a bit different so have gone back to the Bailey's Stud (it's 6% lysine alone which is fab for my lad with his muscle problems) as it seems to fit the bill well.

I'm sure all balancers contain lysine or should do, I am not familiar with most these days. I was just responding to the general comment about high levels of protein.

I do believe bespoke minerals/diet plans have a big place when there are severe problems and of course if you're minted! If you don't get diet as good as is possible you may find you have more vet and other fees in the longer term.

It's not actually that expensive these days - it's more that it's not worth it if your forage source varies a lot i.e. different hay suppliers. When you use the same supplier year on year, it;s really cost effective to have the forage tested and your grazing tested, then know exactly what you need to supplement. It's about £50 for a full mineral analysis on haylage/hay/grass, and only £30 for a nutritional analysis on hay, from the actual FP website, so not that expensive really considering you can save a lot of money when efficiently supplementing.

I think it's easy to see 16% and worry about protein in a balancer but you have to keep it in perspective. That's 16% of something like a little 50ml supplement scoop depending on feeding rates.

Unmolassed Sugarbeet has 9% and you might be feeding half a scoop, unsoaked, hay could have depending on the cut between 5 and 10% and think how much your horse eats of that, it's clear to see where most of the protein in the diet is going to come from.

Exactly. My balancer is 32% protein, which makes some people's eyes pop, but I only feed a cupful, and when you consider protein content of grass and hay then it's not that bad - it's the importance of the lysine supply in it that's important.
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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A balancer such as forageplus, yes. A balancer made from soya with not enough of the important vits and mins,no. On the portly side? Don't be misled by the mugfull crap. Or the won't put weight on even if it's low calorie. Been there, done that and never again.

Terri
 

Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt

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Forage plus winter balancer has kept mine mud fever free this year and they are out 24/7. I feed a tiny amount of unmollassed kiwi beet and top spec lite chaff to feed it in and they get ad lib hay (not haylage)...they are also on unfertilised mountain pasture. Their skin, feet body weight and overall health has never been better than this winter, due I think to this type of management.
 

hobo

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I had my first experience of mud fever last year (winter 12/13). My young horse was on baileys stud balancer at the time. This year I started her on Think Mud at the beginning of Oct and she is now on baileys lo cal and Touch lots of wood no mud fever yet. I am a bit worried that it is because the mud is so wet it is not sticking so I guess I will know if it ever dries out enough to stick.
 
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