will my ems pony ever get back on grass

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paulapup

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Had some good news my EMS pony whos insulin levels were over 900 afew weeks ago have now dropped to 221 I know thats still high but going in the right direction, does anyone have a EMS pony that is now on grass even with a muzzle would love him to go out for afew hours in future with his friends, also having problems getting the metformin down him tried the syringe method, spits it, tried the jam,marmite sarnie, feeding Allen and paige no sugar or cereal intollarance diet and Hi Fi lite so not very tasty any help please
 
Hi,
My pony was diagnosed with ems 10 weeks ago, having already been on box rest for laminitis since the end of February. She is on Metformin and her insulin levels had dropped significantly during the time she has taken the drug. She has been sound for about 8 weeks now, and was having a couple of hours a day of turnout in the menage (wood chip surface) with a haynet.
Last week, on the advice of my vet, I started to turn her out for maximum two hours per day on a very small, very bare patch of paddock. By the end of the week I noticed heat in both front feet, plus some discomfort when walking. She's now back on box rest 24/7 with bute until she stabilises again, which hopefully should be a couple of weeks. I really regret putting her in the position where she is on box rest again, as she was doing so well with the turnout in the menage. I have resigned myself to the fact that she will probably have to be restricted to turnout on soft surfaces other than grass, if she is to remain laminitis free in the future.
We have had so many ups and downs in the last six months, and she has been such a brilliant patient on box rest, I really want her to remain comfortable but also have a reasonable amount of turnout. For that reason, I will be very cautious in building up her time outside the box, and even more cautious about allowing her on to grass.
I wish you all the best with your pony. Please pm me if you want to.
Elaine
 
I have been having this thought this spring/summer, that I don't know if I will ever be able to let my 23 y.o. TBx Cushings boy graze again. Last time I tried him out muzzled for two hours, he did get more footy and by the third day was too uncomfortable to walk down the slope to the field so I stopped the grass again, and I was regretting taking the chance again.
I can now let him out in the field for about 4 hours at a time because I have got a thick leather circular disc laced into the bottom of his muzzle so he can't eat the grass but at least he can go out and socialise with his friends for a while. I am also lucky at my present yard, to have access to a completely bare paddock where I have sectioned off a 10' wide track where he can amble up and down instead of being cooped up in his tiny stable. He is next to other ponies who are fed dry haylage. I am still having to soak three large haynets a day for him to eat, so at least he can feel as if he is with them, and I think the movement helps his circulation.
He has tested negative for EMS three times in the last three years but he seems to have the same symptoms i.e. he gets footy if he has any sugar in his diet, so I think I have to come to terms with the fact I cannot put him on grass again - it is heartbreaking.
Also I've been reliably informed to stay away from alfalfa, which is in HiFi Lite. I feed Graze-on Gold which is grass and soft straw and is low sugar and starch.
 
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That's a really interesting post, muff747. I changed from Safe and Sound to HiFi Lite about a month ago, mainly because HiFi is approved by the Laminitis Trust. I only use feed as a means of getting her to take Metformin tablets - she is quite happy to take 7 tablets crushed up in half a scoopful of dampened feed, twice daily.
Having gone through the same experience with my mare, I really sympathise with you and your boy. You're right; it is heartbreaking.

Back to the OP, I would just say please be very, very cautious when you feel the time has come to turn your pony back out, paulapup. I have heard of other horses who have successfully returned to grazing, albeit on very limited turnout. Let's hope your pony is one of those!
 
My TB has been there. We managed on strict diet only for a long time, so no drugs - but she had to have timothy horsehage or 24hr soaked hay only, oat straw was fine too, and spillers high fibre cubes with speedibeet and outshine/oil/ers nuts in winter. For 3 years she stayed off grass, having a special paddock with haynet during the day. For the first 18 months she had the odd flare-up when someone gave her treats without my knowledge, or she escaped, but after that we had nearly two years where nothing went wrong. I was totally paranoid about her diet, moving to the horsehage as she was still drinking a bit too much on the soaked hay, and providing plenty of straw so there was always food to eat, but nothing that could hurt her. We stayed WELL away from alfalfa too - which seemed to make her more sensitive and caused some of the initial problems.

Well - the good news? After nearly two years of no issues, her system seems to have re-set itself. We moved to a field with very poor grazing recently, and I tried having her out with a muzzle again - with baited breath! She was ok!!! :) We keep to the woody long grass and stay well away from anything short and sweet, but she's out 24/7 now and is absolutely fine. It is so lovely to see her happy again, and so worth the years of stress and £££ on expensive feeds.
 
mystiandsunny - your post has given me hope for the future. Well done on persevering with a regime which has enabled your horse to return to a more natural lifestyle. I think I need to research some alternative feedstuffs if alfalfa-based products are best avoided. In my ignorance I assumed that endorsement of a feed by the Laminitis Trust would mean that it would be suitable for a laminitic pony. Do you happen to know why alfalfa-based feeds are inappropriate?
paulapup - I'm really sorry for seemingly hijacking your thread, but hopefully some of the comments are useful to you in your situation :)
 
I learnt about alfalfa on the EC/IR Yahoo group. They don't recommend it for
Insulin Resistant horses. If your pony has/had a big crest and pads of fat behind the saddle, like saddle bags, he could be IR. The treatment is similar to diabetes in humans, so it's low sugar/starch diet and exercise if there is no laminitis. I also learnt from them not to trust the sales pitch on feed packaging. Read the ingredients and feed analysis. Also avoid too much oil, unless it is olive or linseed oil, which are omega fats and in small quantities safe.
 
celticmolly said:
mystiandsunny - your post has given me hope for the future. Well done on persevering with a regime which has enabled your horse to return to a more natural lifestyle. I think I need to research some alternative feedstuffs if alfalfa-based products are best avoided. In my ignorance I assumed that endorsement of a feed by the Laminitis Trust would mean that it would be suitable for a laminitic pony. Do you happen to know why alfalfa-based feeds are inappropriate?
paulapup - I'm really sorry for seemingly hijacking your thread, but hopefully some of the comments are useful to you in your situation :)
Click to expand...

Alfalfa is a legume.

Personally I have no faith in products endorsed by the LT. Always read the ingredients labels (the small print, not the marketing messages).
 
Agreed on being cautious of endorsed products... There are feeds available which are lower sugar/starch - its about who ca afford to pay the LT trust.

Mollichaff do a plain chaff with mint, and dengue now do molasses free chaff too - though both are alfalfa based. I feed mine speedbeet at 5% sugar and no starch.

I too have found that ponies' system has reset with just 6 months of being at a correct/slightly underweight. I can now happily feed her to gain weight and cut back to lose it - which I never could before - no matter how hard I tried, the weight just didn't shift. She still struggles with grass, though partly perhaps because I can't reintroduce it gradually (out 12hours on it or not as I am at work)... perhaps if I could introduce at an hour a day or so then perhaps that tolerance would be reset too.
 
Thanks to all posters setting me straight on HiFi lite and the laminitis trust. I feel a bit of an idiot. Will change to one of the chaffs suggested on this thread. Thanks.
 
Agreed - shouldn't feel stupid - I think a lot of people (me included) make this mistake. I think its wrong that a reputable "trust" is not recommending the feeds that actually are the "market leaders" so to speak - if I hadn't read up on them because of ponies allergies (garlic is one) I wouldn't have realised they are mollased etc...

I really like the mollichaff one out of the chaffs that are molasses free, its better quality and less sticky. However, they both have soya oil in so be careful with that. The mollichaff one has less oil though than dengue - dengie also has "nutritional conditioning" pellets and fenugreek - which is an appetite stimulant?!?! Because you want a low cal diet horse being more hungry.... LOL. Downside is the mollichaff high fibre alfalfa is hard to get hold of.

All of that said, we use speed beet as you avoid the soya oil (can affect hormones) and molasses (especially if you rinse the water off after soaking.
 
For those of you about to start feeding you EMS horse or Pony, read the Ingredients list carefully and if it contains any SOY products - leave it on the shelf.

SOY affects the Pancreas and may be the cause of the EMS in the first place.
 
For us, Alfalfa is lethal stuff - but it's like with humans, some things affect some people, and others are fine on them. I won't feed it to anything with sugar issues, as it seems to make them more sensitive. This was discovered by trial and error - so when we were trying to get sugar levels down etc. A lot of getting your horse on 'ok' feeds is trial and error to start with. Some horses react badly to soy, and some don't. My EMS girl is a poor doer TB - talk about nightmare!!! Funnily enough though, my EPSM mare also reacts badly to alfalfa.

Feeds we're ok with: ERS nuts if need a conditioning feed (Dodson and Horrell - do contain soy though ok for my girl), Spillers High Fibre Cubes (soy bran in there), Mollichaff original (no alfalfa and low sugar), speedibeet, timothy horsehage, woody or shady long grass (pref not ryegrass), sugar free polos for treats. I also find that a daily dose of brewer's yeast helps with the digestion and we need to be extra careful when the sun first comes out after rain.

Best of luck - it will take a while to get the right feeds and to keep the sugar levels down, then give time for systems to reset before you try anything grass-wise.
 
no offence meant to anyone but speak to your vet regarding feeding rather than taking action solely on the thoughts from this forum. I personally found the LT to be very helpful and my vet recommended various products. good luck x
 
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