Will the worry ever stop & Another livery yard question

[cheekywelshie]

I’ve spent a bit of time reading threads on here about yards and turnout. Currently we are on restricted turnout, normally I would have coped with this and used livery services. But everything changed after the second colic surgery.

This week I have been so stressed at not being able to turn out I have been up three times a day so he gets some grass for gut motility, I was so worried on one day because he hadn’t done as many poos that I went up at midnight and handgrazed for half an hour!

I am not sure what to do going forward, stay put or rethink. The ground will dry out but we are now all individual turnout, which isn’t the biggest concern but things have changed after colic, I don’t think yard are keen on doing what I do is extra work of soaking hay and making up sloppy feed and I suspect don’t want to take it on in case something happens. I’ve already explained about the colic and my worries and needing to go out but preserving the fields is more important. I do understand this, I can’t exercise him as I’d like because he is just coming back to work. He was in a small strip when others were in but got stressed as couldn’t see other horses and jumped out.

I don’t know what is best for him, company of some sort even if just over the fence as he doesn’t have that now, not worrying whether he can go out or not. At the minute I’m so stressed it is making me ill Will the worrying ever stop with a post colic horse? Especially after two surgeries?
Does single turnout matter? Would it be too risky to go in herd if he hasn’t been in big herd and risk of getting kicked? Will he be ok on sand based fields again as that’s what causes the colic first time round.

Honestly, I have so many thoughts going round my head I am exhausted!


Also I wanted once again to say a huge thanks for everyone on this forum to supporting me and my horse during his colic at the end of last year. It gave me strength and kept me going

 

[sport horse]

I feel for you as I have a horse that had colic surgery but I am fortunate in having my own facilities. My horse does not go out at all at this time of year but she does go on the walker twice a day eery day and is ridden daily too. Her hay is soaked and she has a late night meal of mash/linseed.

I would be careful of putting your horse back on sandy soil if that is what caused the colic. You may have to consider a proper rehab yard that can cope with his needs but that will probably be too expensive as a long term solution. Could he live out 24/7 if you can find somewhere non sandy? I think your worry of his being kicked in a group is somewhat down the list of priorities - your main concern is to try to prevent another colic.

 

[doodle]

No idea about what you should do just want to commiserate. Robin is rehabbing from major issues where I thought (as did the vet) he would be pts. Thankfully now he is doing better but I am struggling with a yo who seems intent on making life difficult for me. Offering her “advice” constantly and when I explain why I want to do whatever I do she starts shrieking at me. I am trying to follow the vets rules. I have told her this and told her to please speak to the vet about her concerns which are mainly focused around me feeding too much hay and so wanting me to leave him standing for hours without food. I have tried explaining the 2% rule and so on with no luck. It’s exhausting.

 

[cheekywelshie]

The sand impaction was 12 years ago although admittedly he didn’t colic since but then I moved away from that yard a year later. It’s very hard to find anywhere 24/7 all year round even just in summer . I think he misses herd interaction. Can you still have that on individual turnout. Or maybe I’m imagining it because my brain has turned to mush thinking about it so much! They don’t really see the point of soaking hay or sloppy feeds and said at least he had been out when theirs had been in but I need him out to keep gut moving I notice a change in the poos frequency and consistency - and check that how much water he’s drank etc - they wouldn’t do this if I was away so I don’t know what I’d do. I need to stop worrying but it’s hard

 

[cheekywelshie]

No idea about what you should do just want to commiserate. Robin is rehabbing from major issues where I thought (as did the vet) he would be pts. Thankfully now he is doing better but I am struggling with a yo who seems intent on making life difficult for me. Offering her “advice” constantly and when I explain why I want to do whatever I do she starts shrieking at me. I am trying to follow the vets rules. I have told her this and told her to please speak to the vet about her concerns which are mainly focused around me feeding too much hay and so wanting me to leave him standing for hours without food. I have tried explaining the 2% rule and so on with no luck. It’s exhausting.

I think unless you’ve experienced it it’s hard for YOs to understand, or if they have several like mine does, they are not as precious to them

 

[Apizz2019]

Does your yard, or could they, offer handwalking as a service for a nominal fee?

All horses need to move regularly to keep everything moving, much more so post colic.

I think unless you've been through something like this, it can be hard for many to understand and yard owners are running a business and often miss that every horse has individual needs.

Have you spoken with the YO?

Horses are such a worry, more so when things haven't gone quite to plan. They always give us something to worry about...

 

[brighteyes]

Glad to hear he is still progressing well but wondered how you were coping with the limitations of the weather and yard restrictions. Is it possible to leave feeds ready to administer? Like a pre-filled flask of hot water and a lidded tub kind of thing? Likewise with soaked nets? If you are worried about the sand risk, feed psyllium husk or whatever the anti-sand stuff is. What I don't understand is a YO who won't accommodate special cases. You are the customer and if it's on medical or compassionate grounds and short-term...
If he is particularly stressy and insists on getting himself where he wants to be, you might have to cross your fingers and pray and just give in when there's no other option.
None of mine graze together, they are separated by electric fencing.

Worrying is pointless, just don't be neglectful. You have gone over and above and the people who are supposed to do stuff you presumably pay to be done because you aren't there, well, they need to shut up and do it!

 

[cheekywelshie]

Does your yard, or could they, offer handwalking as a service for a nominal fee?

All horses need to move regularly to keep everything moving, much more so post colic.

I think unless you've been through something like this, it can be hard for many to understand and yard owners are running a business and often miss that every horse has individual needs.

Have you spoken with the YO?

Horses are such a worry, more so when things haven't gone quite to plan. They always give us something to worry about...

When I said I had to think about his care before I brought him back they said they’d understand if I needed to move - the extra work is not something they will do. From my end maybe there’s an element of trust as well. I’ve been doing him myself but when I’m it’s exhausting doing up 3 times a day and trying to do it in between with meetings

 

[cheekywelshie]

Glad to hear he is still progressing well but wondered how you were coping with the limitations of the weather and yard restrictions. Is it possible to leave feeds ready to administer? Like a pre-filled flask of hot water and a lidded tub kind of thing? Likewise with soaked nets? If you are worried about the sand risk, feed psyllium husk or whatever the anti-sand stuff is. What I don't understand is a YO who won't accommodate special cases. You are the customer and if it's on medical or compassionate grounds and short-term...
If he is particularly stressy and insists on getting himself where he wants to be, you might have to cross your fingers and pray and just give in when there's no other option.
None of mine graze together, they are separated by electric fencing.

Worrying is pointless, just don't be neglectful. You have gone over and above and the people who are supposed to do stuff you presumably pay to be done because you aren't there, well, they need to shut up and do it!

Yes I’ve thought about that but I’m not sure i’d ever trust it to be done that’s the problem. Throwing a dry net in is one thing but soaking hay /feeds not. Maybe if I left the soaked hay outside the stable. Then the turnout, it just got to me this week.

he used to be on a sand field years ago , not now. There is a yard 24/7 herd turnout but sandy field 13 miles away. Vet said would be ok if enough grass...

 

[cheekywelshie]

Thing is, is moving yards likely to make a difference or is it just likely to be the same ...

 

[Apizz2019]

When I said I had to think about his care before I brought him back they said they’d understand if I needed to move - the extra work is not something they will do. From my end maybe there’s an element of trust as well. I’ve been doing him myself but when I’m it’s exhausting doing up 3 times a day and trying to do it in between with meetings

If you've lost trust too and don't have faith that they'll do what you need them to do, maybe you need to have a look around to see if there is a yard that can cater to you needs.

I can imagine how hard it must be

Spring is just around the corner.....I think we all need it to come soon!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I can understand your stress. They won;t meet your horse's perfectly reasonable needs and that would be unacceptable to me. Following vet advice on feed is not optional. Turn out matters. I'd not worry about getting kicked. As long as there is enough space, and herds stay stable, horses usually figure things out for themselves. Yes accidents can happen but they can on individual turn out too. And in stables for that matter. Plus avoiding colic is the priority here. Accidents are no more a risk for yours than anyone else's but colic is a specific and increased risk for yours.

If they don't want to offer livery to the standard you want, will they allow you to pay a freelance groom? I've just gone down that route myself as my YO has abruptly withdrawn all livery services. Best things I ever did actually as the freelancer does a much better job! And is willing to do whatever I'd like her to do.

 

[brighteyes]

ALL of the reasons here that are stressing the OP out are my drivers for never opting for the operation (money and age barely factor) as I couldn't stand the stress of post-op care. And mine are at home! Not helpful here and now, but I'm spelling it out for those who might stumble on the thread in an Internet search. Permission to decline, so to speak...

I think of you and your boy regularly CW and hope his idiosyncrasies aren't his undoing. A cooperative patient is so much more helpful!

 

[brighteyes]

If you've lost trust too and don't have faith that they'll do what you need them to do, maybe you need to have a look around to see if there is a yard that can cater to you needs.

OP already went through all the options available at the time and settled for this yard. My heart goes out to those at the mercy of inflexible YO and policies. For enough money, I'd accommodate anything!

 

[sport horse]

When I said I had to think about his care before I brought him back they said they’d understand if I needed to move - the extra work is not something they will do. From my end maybe there’s an element of trust as well. I’ve been doing him myself but when I’m it’s exhausting doing up 3 times a day and trying to do it in between with meetings

Why keep bashing the YO? They clearly said before the horse was brought back that the extra work was not something they could do. They could not have been more honest yet still there is criticism of them on here. They have not taken money and failed to provide the care, they have not said they will do it and failed they have said they cannot do it.

No wonder I get daily visits from people wanting livery because their yards are closing. Why would anyone run a yard? You do not make much money and get constant criticism. I have a big yard, facilities and sufficient land but I will never have a livery on site! I will make hay and sell it and make more money with no work.

 

[Apizz2019]

OP already went through all the options available at the time and settled for this yard. My heart goes out to those at the mercy of inflexible YO and policies. For enough money, I'd accommodate anything!

It's so hard, for horse owner and yard owner.

I can see it from both sides of the fence but ultimately, the OP just wants the best for her horse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Why keep bashing the YO? They clearly said before the horse was brought back that the extra work was not something they could do. They could not have been more honest yet still there is criticism of them on here. They have not taken money and failed to provide the care, they have not said they will do it and failed they have said they cannot do it.

Soaking hay for a post colic horse is not an unreasonable requirement. Any decent yard should do it. They just cba.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

And making up feed as advised by a vet! Fairly basic care really.

 

[sport horse]

But, the fact is that the yard said quite clearly before the horse came back after surgery that 'they could not provide this' so why is it now such an issue. We do not know why they cannot it is not our business but they have done nothing wrong.
In this instance the YO has done everything correctly. Yes the OP wants what is best for her horse so she has to find a yard that can provide that.

 

[Honey08]

It does sound like the yard isn’t being very helpful and doesn’t care whether you leave, so I’d go if I were you.

its very hard as a yard owner to keep everyone happy and I don’t think many horse owners understand how much work often goes into good fields. However I would do my best for someone with a medical issue going on with their horse. One of my liveries was injured this summer and I kept my own horse on the hard standing around the yard for months to keep hers company while it was on box rest and then turned out on the hard standing itself. (Interestingly not one of my other liveries offered to leave theirs in for one day so my horse could have a day in the field. But that’s a different discussion!)

 

[cheekywelshie]

I understand the challenges from both sides, I really do. I am not intending to blame YOs and I can understand any that don’t want to be involved because of the risk. I didn’t have many options when he came out of surgery plus I was emotionally exhausted and didn’t have time to think it through with the extra stress from confusion over payment for the bill, which I paid in full before picking him up. I had thought about retiring him so he can be out 24/7 and just be a horse. It has just been tough over winter, last time we went through this it was summer so wet and fields less of a problem. Whereas before lots of facilities were important now turnout is or being able to control access. I am happy to pay for whatever services are required at the required cost that makes it worth the YOs time and money for them. I did actually find somewhere like this who would have hand grazed for a cost but the box rest was a problem because no other horses in/he couldn’t see any but I think on reflection he would have coped.

 

[Wishfilly]

Have you looked at other yards available locally? If not, I definitely would, as you might find something more suitable- I think most yards would offer soaked nets and feeds made up as the vet advised! And you may be able to find somewhere with more turnout.

If you're willing to mention where you are in the country, people might have recomendations?

If you don't find anything suitable, I would definitely consider also paying a freelancer if your current yard will allow it.

 

[stormox]

A yard owner can only do as much as time allows. As one who has had to soak hay for an elderly horse I know how time consuming and messy it is especially in winter. Are you willing to pay the going rate for the YO's extra time?

 

[Red-1]

A yard owner can only do as much as time allows. As one who has had to soak hay for an elderly horse I know how time consuming and messy it is especially in winter. Are you willing to pay the going rate for the YO's extra time?

It is more than the time. Our water bill went up £10 a month when Rigsby arrived with his soaked hay requirements. There is also the issue of the disposal of the old water. Not such an issue in a private setup, but would need to be licensed, I believe, in a commercial livery yard.

I do feel for you. As a fellow owner of a horse with special needs. Soaked hay is a pain. Special turnout needs is also difficult. But, I do think there will be a yard out there for you. Good yards rarely advertise, so it may be a case of touring some.

 

[cheekywelshie]

We use rain water for soaking.

Yes, I’d pay whatever was required for the service- it’s just making sure it is done correctly. Contract stipulates no freelancers.

I need to reevaluate my needs - it used to be land to ride on now turnout options do I can turnout overnight and he don’t be on his own and friends (ideally!)

 

[Flame_]

Two main thoughts.

1. Whilst I totally understand you want and need to do your best to prevent further colic episodes, you can only do your best. You can never achieve perfect circumstances and you shouldn't feel you need to be hard on yourself because it's unlikely any situation can be a perfect solution. I believe quality of life is more important than quantity, especially for animals so IIWY I would want to balance the colic prevention against your horse's, and your own, joy. If the current situation is causing you distress and the horse is not getting to enjoy much outdoor time, that would be enough for me to be seeking other options.

2. With regards to yards, have you considered hunting around for little private yards? You might have to compromise on facilities, companionship and training opportunities but IME these setups, as long as you can gel with the owner and any other liveries, are more geared up to prioritising horse contentment, safety and peacefulness.

 

[Honey08]

It might be worth looking at a retirement livery yard or track system yard. Some are set up for people that still ride..

 

[Gingerwitch]

It does sound like the yard isn’t being very helpful and doesn’t care whether you leave, so I’d go if I were you.

its very hard as a yard owner to keep everyone happy and I don’t think many horse owners understand how much work often goes into good fields. However I would do my best for someone with a medical issue going on with their horse. One of my liveries was injured this summer and I kept my own horse on the hard standing around the yard for months to keep hers company while it was on box rest and then turned out on the hard standing itself. (Interestingly not one of my other liveries offered to leave theirs in for one day so my horse could have a day in the field. But that’s a different discussion!)

See I would usually have offered to rotate with mine, then find out it was only mine that were doing it. You sound a very kind y.o x

 

[cheekywelshie]

Two main thoughts.

1. Whilst I totally understand you want and need to do your best to prevent further colic episodes, you can only do your best. You can never achieve perfect circumstances and you shouldn't feel you need to be hard on yourself because it's unlikely any situation can be a perfect solution. I believe quality of life is more important than quantity, especially for animals so IIWY I would want to balance the colic prevention against your horse's, and your own, joy. If the current situation is causing you distress and the horse is not getting to enjoy much outdoor time, that would be enough for me to be seeking other options.

2. With regards to yards, have you considered hunting around for little private yards? You might have to compromise on facilities, companionship and training opportunities but IME these setups, as long as you can gel with the owner and any other liveries, are more geared up to prioritising horse contentment, safety and peacefulness.

I have been here (small yard only livery) a long time 5 years until a year and a half ago when I moved a with a friend to another yard as she didn’t want to come here, unfortunately I didn’t realise how novice she was and she didn’t want to manage the paddock so we ran out of grass so I moved back. I’ve been the sole livery until recently ( plus one retired) and now it’s more official ie liveries in own paddocks whereas he shared with yo for a while and restriction on grazing wasn’t as bad as last year. Maybe it wasn’t as wet as last year.. but I didn’t have a post colic horse then either so was prob less worried. Now the ground is drying up it shouldn’t be as bad, but last year they didn’t t.o overnight which I’d prefer. I def do not want to jump frying pan to fire. It’s what to compromise on and what not to and what is manageable.

 

[cheekywelshie]

On a positive note I got back on yesterday!!!

D-day - day one! I forgot to put the stirrups on (they were still on my dressage saddle!!)