William Funnel at Bolesworth

[gunnergundog]

Why do these threads always bring out the immaturity in people?

Care to elucidate??

 

[SpringArising]

Realising this wasn't aimed at my post, but do want to emphasise that my query was genuine.

I know. I did type out a reply to your question (but deleted it) because to be honest, comments like the above just invalidate any genuine discussion.

In short, I give a firm 'No!', pull them up as soon as they run out and then get them to stand still for a few seconds. Depending on how much time I have, I'll then work for one or two minutes on opening and closing the horse up, having a short walk on a circle to regroup and then representing. It generally works. I don't like immediately smacking or getting in a tiff, especially when people bring a horse back to the fence and smack directly in front of it. To purposely have a horse associate the fence with a negative repercussion seems daft to me.

 

[gembear]

I know. I did type out a reply to your question (but deleted it) because to be honest, comments like the above just invalidate any genuine discussion.

In short, I give a firm 'No!', pull them up as soon as they run out and then get them to stand still for a few seconds. Depending on how much time I have, I'll then work for one or two minutes on opening and closing the horse up, having a short walk on a circle to regroup and then representing. It generally works. I don't like immediately smacking or getting in a tiff, especially when people bring a horse back to the fence and smack directly in front of it. To purposely have a horse associate the fence with a negative repercussion seems daft to me.

You would have had a heart attack watching the WH at the RHS last week. So much smacking, kicking and shouting going on. Have to say, I was relieved when some of the riders got dumped by their ponies.

 

[Feival]

OP you are a fool of the highest order!

 

[Marydoll]

OP you are a fool of the highest order!

Because someone has different views and opinions from you doesnt make them a fool, dismissing others because their opinions arent the same as yours, now that is foolish

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Some people have no idea what's involved in producing a showjumper. One good reminder is all that's needed to remind a well produced jumper of its job

 

[Lyle]

I know. I did type out a reply to your question (but deleted it) because to be honest, comments like the above just invalidate any genuine discussion.

In short, I give a firm 'No!', pull them up as soon as they run out and then get them to stand still for a few seconds. Depending on how much time I have, I'll then work for one or two minutes on opening and closing the horse up, having a short walk on a circle to regroup and then representing. It generally works. I don't like immediately smacking or getting in a tiff, especially when people bring a horse back to the fence and smack directly in front of it. To purposely have a horse associate the fence with a negative repercussion seems daft to me.

Surely the repercussion would depend on the REASON for the refusal? In your example, you mention 'run out'. This is a very different scenario to a horse backing off and ignoring the leg, therefore will have a different repercussion. Telling a horse 'NO', well, whatever floats your boat, but I think that's a waste of energy. So lets say a horse refuses (not run out) a jump in training, where the horse backed off, ignored your leg, missed the distance and stopped. What element do you need to correct? Surely the obvious one is the sharpness off the leg? Obviously, you'd know that you now need to school the reaction better, probably on the flat. However, there is a situation right now that you need to correct. If you take too long, the horse won't connect the correction with the event. The most logical reaction is to circle, and apply the leg in conjunction with the whip, so the horse is clear what his reaction to leg should be, and represent to the fence. WF was in a jump off situation, he didn't have minutes to carefully school the horse. He took the simplest method to correct the horse there and the. I'll bet my bottom dollar that he'll be upping the schooling of that horse over angled fences quite a bit now!

 

[YorksG]

I am fascinated by the idea that to reinforce the leg, one should raise the whip above your head and bring it down with force. If you are using the stick to reinforce the leg, then surely you use it just behind the leg to magnify the aid, if however you are wanting to take out your frustration on the horse, I think you may well raise the stick high and hit the horse somewhere along the side....

 

[Clodagh]

I am fascinated by the idea that to reinforce the leg, one should raise the whip above your head and bring it down with force. If you are using the stick to reinforce the leg, then surely you use it just behind the leg to magnify the aid, if however you are wanting to take out your frustration on the horse, I think you may well raise the stick high and hit the horse somewhere along the side....

Very well put. I have vision of people flapping like heron's taking off while beating their horse everytime it isn't quick enough to a leg aid.

 

[shortstuff99]

I think the main issue here is whether he infact DID raise it very high and bring it back this is all guess work from just one persons opinion. It could be he just took his hand off the reins and smacked behind the saddle and there was no bringing it above the head (which I think may not be allowed in show jumping) but could have been perceived as being worse then it was. I think we would need either more witnesses to the event or video evidence to make a true judgement.

 

[sport horse]

I think the main issue here is whether he infact DID raise it very high and bring it back this is all guess work from just one persons opinion. It could be he just took his hand off the reins and smacked behind the saddle and there was no bringing it above the head (which I think may not be allowed in show jumping) but could have been perceived as being worse then it was. I think we would need either more witnesses to the event or video evidence to make a true judgement.

Exactly my point when I questioned whether the one quick view of a person who could not even remember how to spell the rider's name (FUNNELL) was good enough evidence to conduct a public trial on an internet forum.

 

[SpringArising]

Surely the repercussion would depend on the REASON for the refusal? In your example, you mention 'run out'. This is a very different scenario to a horse backing off and ignoring the leg, therefore will have a different repercussion. Telling a horse 'NO', well, whatever floats your boat, but I think that's a waste of energy. So lets say a horse refuses (not run out) a jump in training, where the horse backed off, ignored your leg, missed the distance and stopped. What element do you need to correct? Surely the obvious one is the sharpness off the leg? Obviously, you'd know that you now need to school the reaction better, probably on the flat. However, there is a situation right now that you need to correct. If you take too long, the horse won't connect the correction with the event. The most logical reaction is to circle, and apply the leg in conjunction with the whip, so the horse is clear what his reaction to leg should be, and represent to the fence. WF was in a jump off situation, he didn't have minutes to carefully school the horse. He took the simplest method to correct the horse there and the. I'll bet my bottom dollar that he'll be upping the schooling of that horse over angled fences quite a bit now!

My issue isn't with using the crop lightly as an aid to ask the horse to be sharper off the leg. Very occasionally I have done that. My issue is with smacking a horse out of frustration when it refuses. If we're all being honest, that's probably what happened, and what happens the majority of the time.

I've seen people try to give their horses a dig with their spurs on the sly after being eliminated - it happens every day.

In this situation the horse stopped because the angle and distance was too tight. Who the hell are we to punish that horse for trying to preserve himself? Would you take a leap over a ditch if you didn't think you could make it?

 

[Fun Times]

OP, what have the show organisers or BS said in response to your formal complaint? I assume you have reported this to them?

 

[L&M]

Without seeing a video, it sounds like he asked to big a question for the horse, and maybe William overreacted.

I am not excusing him but did groom for him years ago when he was the work rider for Cyril Light and can categorically state that I never saw him 'abuse' any of his rides, and think he has grown up to be a thoroughly decent chap.

Also bear in mind these guys are not out for a 'jolly' (as many of us are) - they are doing it to make a living and the difference in being placed or not has to have a financial impact'.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Perhaps our time, efforts, thoughts and actions would be better placed in trying to help the many thousands of horses and ponies that are suffering a miserable existence around the UK at this moment in time.

I am sure the starving, mistreated and neglected equines would gladly swap their lifestyle with a horse in the Funnell yard.

 

[L&M]

Well said AA.....

 

[Goldenstar]

Perhaps to make sure the horse knew to stay in front of his leg? Maybe it was a mistake and an impossible angle, or maybe it was an angle the horse has practiced many times both at home and in the ring?

Perhaps our time, efforts, thoughts and actions would be better placed in trying to help the many thousands of horses and ponies that are suffering a miserable existence around the UK at this moment in time.

I am sure the starving, mistreated and neglected equines would gladly swap their lifestyle with a horse in the Funnell yard.

So true .
And those labouring on with bilateral lameness .

 

[Blurr]

Perhaps our time, efforts, thoughts and actions would be better placed in trying to help the many thousands of horses and ponies that are suffering a miserable existence around the UK at this moment in time.

I am sure the starving, mistreated and neglected equines would gladly swap their lifestyle with a horse in the Funnell yard.

Absolutely. One does wonder why anyone:

a) is on this forum in the first place when they could be doing something so much more useful, like saving lives/ the world; or
b) is using this forum for anything other than galvanizing troops to rescue/save horses/the world

 

[Clodagh]

Surely the point of a forum is to have discussion? So if anyone has an opinion about anything they shouldn't voice it, but should go and give water to a tethered pony instead? I am not saying the world might well be a better place but surely discussion is why we are here.

 

[lula]

Also bear in mind these guys are not out for a 'jolly' (as many of us are) - they are doing it to make a living and the difference in being placed or not has to have a financial impact'.

oh, that's alright then. If there's money at stake we have to make allowances for hitting horses a little harder than we may do otherwise.

 

[amage]

Having seen both William's horse and then Chloe Aston hammering her horse on Sunday in the GP I think her behaviour was far far worse. And given that she was summoned to the judges box as soon as her round was finished one would guess they may have felt similar.

 

[webble]

oh, that's alright then. If there's money at stake we have to make allowances for hitting horses a little harder than we may do otherwise.

Indeed

 

[sport horse]

I have made a point of watching William at Hickstead and so far have not managed to see him carry a stick on any horse. Bolesworth is coming up on H & C in mid july so will watch this reported episode with interest.

 

[PaddyMonty]

raised his stick, deliberately I think, over the horses head so he could see it, then brought it round and hit him with great force on his side.

OP said above horses head, not riders. As the horse was likely to have its head quite low this would have been raising the stick below the height of riders shoulder. Raising stick above riders head is not allowed in SJ at affiliated level and would bring an immediate discussion with the judges. It would seem he also used his crop once, not the allowed three times. hardly seems a case of horse abuse from an angry man.
I would want to see the video before hanging the guy.
If we want to discuss horse abuse then lets talk about the 90% of riders competing unaff SJ that lock their hands on to horses wither when jumping causing the poor animal to get a sock in the mouth every time it tries to bascule over a fence.