Winter lameness?

[FlyingCircus]

Anyone had something like this occur?

Pony in question is fine all summer (has some arthritis in hocks but is manageable even into the cold), then suddenly becomes lame during the winter period. Happened this time last year, and now happening again presenting in the same pottery gait infront but one fore more impacted.

Had xrays last year of hocks and front feet. Arthritis obviously there in hocks, but front feet didn't show anything spectacular.

Upon box rest for a few weeks, suspect will be sound...

It's bizarre. Not dealt with anything like it before. Almost like clockwork! Don't think it's the hocks as when he is feeling them you can see it more in his hind than fronts. Has been tested for cushings.

 

[Shooting Star]

Sounds similar to winter laminitis which they think is due to reduced circulation in the feet from the cold.

 

[ycbm]

Sounds like a type of Reynauds disease in horses.
.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Vet said to me Monday laminitis is rife at the moment she has seen lots of horses with very mild symptoms, my friends horse came down with it very suddenly he does have cushings and was on pracsend so she had him pts as he was in a lot of pain.

 

[DirectorFury]

How does his management change in winter? Any turnout on to frozen grass, different grazing, change of forage etc? Does the ground in his field ever end up frozen and rutted?

It might not be a realistic option but do you have access to grass-free turnout at all? That'd help rule out low-grade laminitis from frosty grass and/or sore feet from walking over rutted ground.

 

[atropa]

Yes, last winter I had nail bind causing lameness in one horse (obviously not winter specific) and another who came in with a spectacularly bruised sole which then led to a flare up of her navicular (horse with crap feet in combination with frozen rutted ground), this year I've had a third horse lose her entire frog and injure the soft tissue underneath (possibly weakened/softened due to wet weather) and the same horse from last year obtain another, thankfully less severe bruise (specifically from hanging around the hardcored gateway waiting to come in for food)

 

[chocolategirl]

Sounds similar to winter laminitis which they think is due to reduced circulation in the feet from the cold.

Yep, my thoughts too?

 

[JJS]

Sounds similar to winter laminitis which they think is due to reduced circulation in the feet from the cold.

I agree. My 29 year old has had the same the last two years running. No problem for the rest of the year - in fact, very fit and sprightly - but then come early December, with no changes to management, feed, turnout, etc. he presents with laminitis.

 

[AandK]

Yes, last winter I had nail bind causing lameness in one horse (obviously not winter specific) and another who came in with a spectacularly bruised sole which then led to a flare up of her navicular (horse with crap feet in combination with frozen rutted ground), this year I've had a third horse lose her entire frog and injure the soft tissue underneath (possibly weakened/softened due to wet weather) and the same horse from last year obtain another, thankfully less severe bruise (specifically from hanging around the hardcored gateway waiting to come in for food)

Interesting to read the bit in bold, have similar with my 25yo at the moment. Thought he had an abscess, was checking his foot and found him v tender around the point of the frog and it looks like he has shed that part. Have wrapped the foot and he is looking more comfy now. Hopefully keeping it dry for a week or so will sort it out!

 

[FlyingCircus]

His management last winter didn't change other than more forage and hard feed to compensate for the lack of grass.

This winter he has been stabled more.

He has had cushings test last year, has EMS test on the 6th.

Not sure what to do with him to be honest! He went sound infront and stiff due to box rest behind, so popped him out with a muzzle with vets blessing.

Fri went out for 3 hrs, Sat 6, Sun 8 and came in lame infront ?‍♀

He's not typical EMS or cushings type. Was hunting and eventing before he went off games in Feb. You can see and feel his ribs easily.

Everything I'm seeing RE management of EMS and related metabolic challenges say maintenance is to keep them slim and moving. Mine is starting to look like a hat rack and be kept moving as unsound

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would test again for cushings the normal blood test is not always reliable my mare had 2 negative tests before we got a positive, some cushings horses do drop weight it's often the ones that have cushings and ems are the ones that don't loose weight.

What are the feet like is the horse shod?

Mine presented like lami a few years back we x rayed and it was just very thin soles that had got badly bruised.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I would test again for cushings the normal blood test is not always reliable my mare had 2 negative tests before we got a positive, some cushings horses do drop weight it's often the ones that have cushings and ems are the ones that don't loose weight.

What are the feet like is the horse shod?

Mine presented like lami a few years back we x rayed and it was just very thin soles that had got badly bruised.

He is shod with pads at the moment. He almost looks like his fronts are heavy so struggling to lift them kind of unsound.

Next step is get the pads off to have a look what is going on underneath. He has just come back off loan so trying to come up with a bit of an action plan.

 

[JGC]

I would test again for cushings the normal blood test is not always reliable my mare had 2 negative tests before we got a positive, some cushings horses do drop weight it's often the ones that have cushings and ems are the ones that don't loose weight.

What are the feet like is the horse shod?

Mine presented like lami a few years back we x rayed and it was just very thin soles that had got badly bruised.

If the normal blood test doesn't show it, what should I be asking for? I have one with repeated abscesses and foot problems every winter and I was really surprised she came back negative for Cushings.

 

[I'm Dun]

If the normal blood test doesn't show it, what should I be asking for? I have one with repeated abscesses and foot problems every winter and I was really surprised she came back negative for Cushings.

TRH stim test

 

[meleeka]

I had one like this. I treated for cushings and now always wrap her legs overnight when it’s really cold, either with stable chaps or turnout boots. She’s been good for years now so not sure if it’s Prascend or keeping her legs warm that’s done it.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Is there any merit in treating with prascend as a trial? I've spent ££££ on vets bills recently inc him and my other had performance workup, followed by colic surgery...! So don't really want to faff wirh a million and one tests if I don't have to.

Are there negative effects? Or would a positive effect be enough to show he needs medicating?

 

[meleeka]

Is there any merit in treating with prascend as a trial? I've spent ££££ on vets bills recently inc him and my other had performance workup, followed by colic surgery...! So don't really want to faff wirh a million and one tests if I don't have to.

Are there negative effects? Or would a positive effect be enough to show he needs medicating?

Yes. If your horse has cushings induced laminitis it should improve after a couple of weeks. It’s unlikely to improve on its own. A TRH stimulation test is also pretty accurate.

 

[spotty_pony]

Soft feet due to wet? My boy currently has very thin soles after wintering out for the first time this year - and isn’t like but is a bit pottery. I’m managing by applying a special liquid everyday recommended by the farrier and if they haven’t improved when he is next shod he is having pads put in his front shoes to allow him to grow more sole depth. The jury is out as to whether I’ll winter him out next year if we are going to get these problems..!

 

[FlyingCircus]

Yes. If your horse has cushings induced laminitis it should improve after a couple of weeks. It’s unlikely to improve on its own. A TRH stimulation test is also pretty accurate.

I'm not sure what kind of test he had previously- it ended up being free due to it being done by the company who make the drug to medicate it ?

 

[FlyingCircus]

Soft feet due to wet? My boy currently has very thin soles after wintering out for the first time this year - and isn’t like but is a bit pottery. I’m managing by applying a special liquid everyday recommended by the farrier and if they haven’t improved when he is next shod he is having pads put in his front shoes to allow him to grow more sole depth. The jury is out as to whether I’ll winter him out next year if we are going to get these problems..!

He didn't winter out and has pads on at the moment but still problems.

I'm not sure if the pads will do any good for the sole. I've been told that they mask the issues, and can cause additional problems due to the sole and frog not getting the right stimulation.

Mine field!

 

[TPO]

Is there any merit in treating with prascend as a trial? I've spent ££££ on vets bills recently inc him and my other had performance workup, followed by colic surgery...! So don't really want to faff wirh a million and one tests if I don't have to.

Are there negative effects? Or would a positive effect be enough to show he needs medicating?

I just had glucose challenge and TRH stim as well as another test that starts with A to measure fat % (& this result you want to be high). Thr last test was done because my horse is young and wasn't a typical cushings/EMS/lami horse. As it turns out that was right enough and all his test results were healthy.

Anyway the visit, the 3 tests & interpretation and results was just under £400 if that gives you a guide.

Wait and I'll see if I can find my bill so you can see the costs



I paid a fiver for the 500gm of glucose that was needed too.

 

[FlyingCircus]

£400, yikes. I'm already up to nearing £9k for the year of vets bills so far ??

 

[Pinkvboots]

TRH stim test

Yeah this

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would get the shoes and pads off and get the vet out and consider x raying the front feet if they can't see anything obvious.

Normally with a horse that is not showing discomfort in the feet and no other cushings symptoms I would say wait and re test in Autumn when levels are normally at there highest

 

[Pinkvboots]

My horse did improve with pads on but he was diagnosed with thin soles.

 

[FlyingCircus]

My horse did improve with pads on but he was diagnosed with thin soles.

Mine has had xrays previously when we thought lami last year. Couldn't see signs of it on xrays, and was diagnosed with possible sub clinical lami? But he does have thin soles and has always struggled with stony tracks.

Did try to take him barefoot several years ago but he just couldn't cope even with a correct diet and exercise on various surfaces.

He was moving much better this morning, so am sure some of it is arthritis that has caused more problems for being stood in for so long. He doesn’t have warm feet, or pulses or filled hollows above eye etc etc. So really no signs of lami other than his "heavy" front feet where he does tend to scuff the ground as he walks. Not landing toe first though.

Wondering if there isn't some arthritis up front aswell that could cause the gait change. He is much better in the eves after being out in the day at the moment, which doesn't sound very lami like!

Should add am also in (very!) regular contact with my vet so if she were to say pull him off grass that's the first thing I'd do. As it is, he's muzzled on 2 acres where he can stretch his legs abit.

 

[spotty_pony]

He didn't winter out and has pads on at the moment but still problems.

I'm not sure if the pads will do any good for the sole. I've been told that they mask the issues, and can cause additional problems due to the sole and frog not getting the right stimulation.

Mine field!

I have bought Lucky Fox SOS Frog as recommended by my Farrier - had to get it from Italy as nowhere sells it in this country except one place and they were out of stock! There is noticeable difference after using it for just a week but Farrier came back out yesterday and said if he is still not comfortable when he is next shod (in about a month’s time) then he is going to have pads fitted just for six weeks to allow the sole to dry out and produce some depth. Whether I keep him in at night next winter or allow him to live out and have pads fitted to protect the soles, I haven’t decided yet. He is arthritic so best out and moving around but loves his stable and doesn’t stiffen up much really so I am undecided!