WLD help

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Well I'm officially gutted with myself.

Kia has never had WLD, he has had a little separation but it has tightened up with no issues. Well not now, he Is still a bit footy since his last trim, field is still being managed and topped so not a great abundance of grass, field has also not had a rest since I have been there ( 18 months) so not lush grass, fibre and oil diet up until May he had been on the same feed more or less with little tweaks.

I was encouraged to change his feed slightly for a few reasons, one being simplicity for those feeding him when I am away over summer, holidays and playing badminton abroad, and second to make sure he was getting the best nutrients for his feet. Spoke to many companies and people and changed him onto Top Spec Lite balancer, being advised is was very low to no cereal and perfect for barefoot hooves.

Well I wish I had just left him on the veteran vitality, *unmolassed grass chaff and supplements as we have went from having rock hard hooves to tatty horridly infected feet. I looked at the contents of what I've been giving him since the beginning of May and I was horrified. Wheat feed, oat feed, dual distillery grains, honestly disgusted with myself feeding this to a cereal intolerant horse, it's way more than his 12% allowance. I'm normally very careful.

Now my question is how long until this will be fixed? I am ordering some cleantrax this week and I'll pick up a fresh bottle of hydrogen peroxide. He is footy, has been since his trim, had an MOT at the vets which he has passed with flying colours for his age, had teeth done and everything checked and done whilst under sedation and apart from a tooth that is nearly ready for falling out he is in ace condition, wasn't happy about the needles etc but needs must.

I'm doing research on how to help him right now. *

Pics taken today

Condition pics

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I would recommend pro hoof from progressive earth and add 25gms of salt to diet, I would like to stable him 4-6 hours per day on deep bed and feed soaked hay ad lib.
Some 100gms micronised linseed with non molassed sugar beet to make up a small feed.
How does he cope on smooth tarmac, if he can, I would walk him in hand on it twice a day to stimulate blood flow. He might need boots.
I assume the vet did not suggest a cushings test?
Did your trimmer not notice, this is quite extreme.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

G

I would recommend pro hoof from progressive earth and add 25gms of salt to diet, I would like to stable him 4-6 hours per day on deep bed and feed soaked hay ad lib.
Some 100gms micronised linseed with non molassed sugar beet to make up a small feed.
How does he cope on smooth tarmac, if he can, I would walk him in hand on it twice a day to stimulate blood flow. He might need boots.
I assume the vet did not suggest a cushings test?
Did your trimmer not notice, this is quite extreme.

I am going to switch him back to what I know he is ok with for now as playing about is what has caused this but I will definitely have a look at progressive earth thank you.

He is getting low salt in his diet at present but not that much so I will up the dose.

He is getting about 100gs of linseed at present I have immediately removed the balancer and he is on beet and unmolassed grass chaff with his supplements.

So far smooth Tarmac we are fine with, also ok with good going, the fields have slightly hardened so he was footy when I was schooling/jumping the other night occasionally on a bumpy bit. So hacking we can do but he is a bit ouchy with any stones.

Vet will retest in August, pointless testing now but I have handed in a free test voucher so bloods will be retested then, he was very low count at last testing.

Nope he was last trimmed in May, his last trim before was November, he self trims and I mostly manage his feet through road work and the odd run round with a rasp, his feet were NOT in this state before trim and he was rock solid sound.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Why does he need trimmed then, he should not be unsound after a trim, perhaps a tad more sensitive for a week, that's all.
I would not feed grass chaff as it is high in sugars.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I was thinking of changing him to Timothy hay chaff unmollassed

He was trimmed to tidy up his deviation which sometimes if there is faster hoof growth I am not experienced enough to trim properly yet so I get the farrier to just normally do a quick rasp but he went a bit much this time and I've had issues ever since

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I have been told to give it a really good clear out with the cleantrax then once feet are dry pack with the red horse putty? Stop any more nasties getting in?

Anyone else used this method??

 

[missyclare]

Apart from cleaning the White Line where it has separated and keeping the bevel maintained, I don't see this as causing discomfort to the horse. What I do see is excessive bar. Big fat augerlogs! I just answered a post from yesterday called "False Sole in a Barefoot Hoof" explaining what bars can do. Your foot is a good example of 4 things I mentioned that bars can do to cause pain to a horse. Once trimmed, and with the descending weight coming down on those bars........that's definitely my take on his discomfort, as well as being brought down on thrush. The central sulcis should only be a mere thumbprint depression on the top of the frog, no crack going right up through the heel bulbs. When that is gone, then thrush is gone. I think the White Lightning will be good at both ends of the foot and a good move. Hope this helps....

 

[brucea]

Given my advice over on t'other place.

There are three underlying issues going on here

- He has deep central sulci and I would be flossing them and keeping them clean - if they are not comfortable he won't land on the back of his foot. baby wipe - roll it up and pull it thorough like you would dental floss

- He is compromised in his WL and that should be treated as low grade laminitis. You know how to address that already. You can;t trim that better, you have to grow that better.

- He has been over trimmed. More trimming is not the answer - leaving them well alone is. Let these walls grow out. There is an argument of levelling out (in a minimal way) the bars because they look a little overlaid, but a good walk on abrasive ground will do it for you, in any case if some wall height had been left then it would not be an issue. This is trimmer inflicted. DO NOT LET ANYONE CARVE AT THE BARS AND SOLE

In terms of feed - if he has WLD then he is compromised - so less is more. Stay away from sugar beet of any kind. Stick to a simple chaff, HF nuts and a good mineral supplement and LIMIT THE GRASS

Less is more.

 

[JillA]

Has your farrier trimmed the sole? It looks like it to me, and that was the cause of my horse's sensitivity - he now exfoliates naturally and until his most recent PPID related lammi was much more comfortable on all stony surfaces.

 

[FFAQ]

Hi!

It sounds like you are on the case. So, you asked about the WLD and it sounds like you have a plan re feed and trimming. If it helps at all, I use diluted Milton for WLD - 1 cap Milton:5l water. Soak the foot for 10-15 mins twice a week and then smear all infected areas with red horse putty/field paste/artimud/sudocrem. As someone else mentioned, where a deep central sulcus infection is present I would floss out with baby wipes, flush through with Milton and stuff some red horse hoof stuff in to encourage the central sulcus to open out so that bugs have a harder time getting stuck in there. As a general rule, I believe that if you wouldn't put it on your bare skin don't put it on your horse. Some treatments can actually be very drying and damage the intertubular horn.

Incidentally, if anyone needs a good nutritionist, I'd thoroughly recommend Clare McLeod. She is independent so will not recommend a certain brand because the feed companies pay her to! Her book 'The Truth About Feeding Your Horse' is very informative.

Good luck

 

[paddy555]

Given my advice over on t'other place.

There are three underlying issues going on here

- He has deep central sulci and I would be flossing them and keeping them clean - if they are not comfortable he won't land on the back of his foot. baby wipe - roll it up and pull it thorough like you would dental floss

- He is compromised in his WL and that should be treated as low grade laminitis. You know how to address that already. You can;t trim that better, you have to grow that better.

- He has been over trimmed. More trimming is not the answer - leaving them well alone is. Let these walls grow out. There is an argument of levelling out (in a minimal way) the bars because they look a little overlaid, but a good walk on abrasive ground will do it for you, in any case if some wall height had been left then it would not be an issue. This is trimmer inflicted. DO NOT LET ANYONE CARVE AT THE BARS AND SOLE

In terms of feed - if he has WLD then he is compromised - so less is more. Stay away from sugar beet of any kind. Stick to a simple chaff, HF nuts and a good mineral supplement and LIMIT THE GRASS

Less is more.

I don't disagree with any of your comments but on the overtrimming point he was last trimmed in May. This is July. They would surely have grown sufficiently to deal with the effects of a farrier possibly over trimming especially when feet are growing more rapidly in spring. If he cannot grow enough foot in nearly 2 months to deal with trimming something else must be going on.

I would query if the horse has been ridden and done too much work in which case the feet cannot keep up with the work and booting would be appropriate. If he was mine I would not be riding barefoot until there was considerable improvement and the horse was 100% not a bit ouchy with stones as you say he is., I think he needs boot to prevent more wear when ridden.

As for trimming I would get a sanding block and run it around the edge of the wall to deal with any chips.
Ultimately I wonder if you will find that the feet are deteriorating and he is footy even on minimal grass due to PPID that as yet has not been diagnosed on an ACTH test. I think you mentioned somewhere he was 2

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

H

I don't disagree with any of your comments but on the overtrimming point he was last trimmed in May. This is July. They would surely have grown sufficiently to deal with the effects of a farrier possibly over trimming especially when feet are growing more rapidly in spring. If he cannot grow enough foot in nearly 2 months to deal with trimming something else must be going on.

I would query if the horse has been ridden and done too much work in which case the feet cannot keep up with the work and booting would be appropriate. If he was mine I would not be riding barefoot until there was considerable improvement and the horse was 100% not a bit ouchy with stones as you say he is., I think he needs boot to prevent more wear when ridden.

As for trimming I would get a sanding block and run it around the edge of the wall to deal with any chips.
Ultimately I wonder if you will find that the feet are deteriorating and he is footy even on minimal grass due to PPID that as yet has not been diagnosed on an ACTH test. I think you mentioned somewhere he was 2

I keep saying this he had been tested and came back fine. I have spoken to the vet and he is being retested in August. He is 24 and I feed chasteberry as he gets funny over the mares with other geldings and as a just in case with his age.

He was fine before this last trim, I did two hours hacking which is my Norm twice a week, the rest are shorter or in the grass school, the night before and he was sound on all surfaces.

He was over trimmed and then Very footsore, had to do gentle exercise and let the feet grow, he has been more in the grass school than on the road and now his feet are in this mess and I've hardly ridden him at all

Thanks brucea.

 

[brucea]

BB's picture shows a wall trimmed almost away - there is little or no wall left so you transfer the loading to the edge of the sole and WL, which in this case is compromised

I really am fed up of seeing dogmatic over trimming like this and then often people jump to it's defence when it's pointed out (not you BB) Trimmers need to really think about what they are doing - if the bars are there, hey are there for a reason, of the horse is not wearing a bevel then they don;t need a bevel. Understand why it is there before taking it away. It's not all that hard a concept to consider - just do what is 100% defensible and no more. And if a horse is footsore afterwards it is not defensible and you've done the wrong thing.

Forget the trimming school dogma, forget the half baked bar pressure theories, start with the horse! If you don;t understand why that hoof material is there and why it is the shape it is - why do you even have that rap in your hand?

(end of rant!)

 

[paddy555]

BB's picture shows a wall trimmed almost away - there is little or no wall left so you transfer the loading to the edge of the sole and WL, which in this case is compromised

I really am fed up of seeing dogmatic over trimming like this and then often people jump to it's defence when it's pointed out (not you BB) Trimmers need to really think about what they are doing - if the bars are there, hey are there for a reason, of the horse is not wearing a bevel then they don;t need a bevel. Understand why it is there before taking it away. It's not all that hard a concept to consider - just do what is 100% defensible and no more. And if a horse is footsore afterwards it is not defensible and you've done the wrong thing.

Forget the trimming school dogma, forget the half baked bar pressure theories, start with the horse! If you don;t understand why that hoof material is there and why it is the shape it is - why do you even have that rap in your hand?

(end of rant!)

I'm struggling a bit with your rant as I cannot really see overtrimming. If the horse had been overtrimmed then after a couple of months I would have expected it to have grown sufficiently to negate the effects. If the horse was sore after trimming then perhaps it had another problem that the trimming highlighted. The farrier doesn't appear to have trimmed the sole,the bars or the frog. I also cannot see that he has thinned the wall by rasping from above.

I agree there is little wall left in the picture however there are some excellent pics of these feet in earlier posts. If you look at them on 26/4 prior to this problem trim there is very little wall. That is prior to trimming. The post 31/5 shows them after the trim. Not quite sure they are over trimmed. Perhaps they have a bit of a bevel but having had similar bevels on my own horses they have usually grown out in a week and needed touching up. This is 2 months later.

I don't really see the farrier can be blamed after all this time and for that particular trim. I don't know what has happened to produce the significant deterioration in the feet in the last 6 weeks I would think that something else is going on. Perhaps the farrier should be asked to have a look and see if he has any ideas.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I'm struggling a bit with your rant as I cannot really see overtrimming. If the horse had been overtrimmed then after a couple of months I would have expected it to have grown sufficiently to negate the effects. If the horse was sore after trimming then perhaps it had another problem that the trimming highlighted. The farrier doesn't appear to have trimmed the sole,the bars or the frog. I also cannot see that he has thinned the wall by rasping from above.

I agree there is little wall left in the picture however there are some excellent pics of these feet in earlier posts. If you look at them on 26/4 prior to this problem trim there is very little wall. That is prior to trimming. The post 31/5 shows them after the trim. Not quite sure they are over trimmed. Perhaps they have a bit of a bevel but having had similar bevels on my own horses they have usually grown out in a week and needed touching up. This is 2 months later.

I don't really see the farrier can be blamed after all this time and for that particular trim. I don't know what has happened to produce the significant deterioration in the feet in the last 6 weeks I would think that something else is going on. Perhaps the farrier should be asked to have a look and see if he has any ideas.

So why when the farrier was asked at the time were there any issues with the feet he said no? If this has been obviously brewing according to yourself for ages wasn't it picked up?

As I said it could have been a combination of over trim, going out to grass 24/7 and a feed change all pretty much in the same week that has led us to this to which then all has contributed equally no? I am not a farrier basher but to me my horse being sound out riding before a trim then never being right after it clearly says something went wrong? He is lucky if he is trimmed three or four times a year as his feet are good.

I have been watching the feet get worse and tried methods but at the end of my tether and for help I came on to get advice and what has worked for other people, much of that I have taken on board. He has never had WLD so I'm going by research and past experience of others Battles with it.

 

[paddy555]

So why when the farrier was asked at the time were there any issues with the feet he said no? If this has been obviously brewing according to yourself for ages wasn't it picked up?

As I said it could have been a combination of over trim, going out to grass 24/7 and a feed change all pretty much in the same week that has led us to this to which then all has contributed equally no? I am not a farrier basher but to me my horse being sound out riding before a trim then never being right after it clearly says something went wrong? He is lucky if he is trimmed three or four times a year as his feet are good.

I have been watching the feet get worse and tried methods but at the end of my tether and for help I came on to get advice and what has worked for other people, much of that I have taken on board. He has never had WLD so I'm going by research and past experience of others Battles with it.

I appreciate you are at the end of your tether. I am simply trying to say that I don't think this is your farrier's fault (nor your fault) and that the answer lies elsewhere. Blaming the trim may stop progress into considering other options. I have no idea what your farrier commented about the feet when he trimmed them, the important this is what did he say when you told him afterwards that Kia was unsound? What did he attribute it to? He is the only person who could tell you that either he made a mistake, which I'm not sure he did or that he wouldn't have expected the horse to be unsound and perhaps there is another problem. What does he say now?

I suspect that the trim brought underlying issues to the surface or indeed that they simply surfaced at the same time. Logically if Kia was sound one day and unsound the next after trimming then the farriers actions look suspect but not so long after the event.

It is impossible to tell what is going on from photos or to suggest what may work. I believe you need professional hands on help. The photos suggest to me that your horse may not have the capacity to grow good quality hoof at a reasonable rate. That is only a guess. I would also guess that you may have a grass problem however little grass she is getting which may be the real cause of unsoundness.