Wobbler?

[tinawales]

Beautifully bred yearling, never over fed but growing quickly, has developed peculiar gait behind. Steps wide when turned in walk, looks peculiar on hills, bunny hops somewhat in canter, when hooning about stops by falling down...looks sound in trot when excited and doesn't so much look lame as not quite co-ordinated in normal trot up.

Going for full neurological examination (inc neck X-rays) next Wednesday. Is there any possibility that it could be anything else?

Until 8/9 months had action to die for but, after 3 months of me and groom saying "can I see anything or can't I?". "is it a bit pottery?", and "no, seems OK now", "Ho, Mr visiting vet, can you see anything wrong?" "Seems OK to me -maybe turned a foot in the paddocl and its cleared up?" (why are they never showing lame when the vet calls?), now is as described above. Any bright ideas forum members?

 

[Birker2020]

He could have got cast/had a fall and hurt his neck and as a result could have nerve impingement which would mean that he had loss of co-ordination in his hind limbs.

There are a number of other factors for horses being weak on their hind limbs, and wobblers or CVM is only one of these. My friends horse showed ataxia to a small degree - he did not have anything wrong wobbler wise, he had a ligament injured in his back! Some types of clover (think its red) contain cyanide. Although its in very low dosage, it can cause ataxia if eaten in large enough quantities. So can certain types of posionous plants - bracken for example can cause staggers. Some crop sprays can cause ataxia and something called a protozea (think its spelt like that) can cause ataxia (can't remember what this is, think its like a parasite or something similar).

However I have got to say that swinging the leg wide, unusual foot placement and the horse being unable to walk in a straight line would indicate the possibility of wobblers, in particular because of his age/breeding. The only way you can diagnose is through neuro tests, and xrays. Sometimes you can arrange for a myelogram which is a procedure where contrast dye is injected into the spinal cord of the animal and then it is xrayed. This procedure is risky anyway but it also requires a general anaethetic, that in itself is a risk, of 1 in 100 not surviving due to injury/death.

The bunny hopping was a major symptom of my horses wobblers, as was his long neck, and the fact he was a gelding, geldings, Quarter horses, shires and WB's are more likely to develop wobblers and horses with long necks (due to cervical instability/more chance of injury to long necks).

If you type Cruz and Universit of Ontario and Wobblers into Google you will get a fabby fact sheet from a very experienced consultant who had researched at length Wobblers/CVM. I cant get the link up at the moment myself.

My ten year old WB gelding had this at the age of ten following a fall in the field - he was Grade 3 and was pts upon diagnosis as he had too many vetebrae affected for an operation with the bagby basket, and he was too dangerous to keep as a paddock ornament as he was so unsteady on his legs. A word of warning - please don't rely on xray using a portable xray mc that your vet brings to the yard as its not sttrong enough to penetrate the muscles on the neck, and the xrays Rommy had showed he was fine, two weeks later he was pts, his spinal column had narrowed with extra bone formation from 51mm to 17mm. You need to be referred to an equine clinic with a decent sized xray machine, unless times have changed and the machines are better than the portable one used for my horse in 2004.

Good luck

 

[Always Henesy]

He could have got cast/had a fall and hurt his neck and as a result could have nerve impingement which would mean that he had loss of co-ordination in his hind limbs.

There are a number of other factors for horses being weak on their hind limbs, and wobblers or CVM is only one of these. Some types of clover (think its red) contain cyanide. Although its in very low dosage, it can cause ataxia if eaten in large enough quantities. So can certain types of posionous plants - bracken for example can cause staggers. Some crop sprays can cause ataxia and something called a protozea (think its spelt like that) can cause ataxia (can't remember what this is, think its like a parasite or something similar).

However I have got to say that swinging the leg wide, unusual foot placement and the horse being unable to walk in a straight line would indicate the possibility of wobblers. The only way you can diagnose is through neuro tests, and xrays. Sometimes you can arrange for a myelogram which is a procedure where contrast dye is injected into the spinal cord of the animal and then it is xrayed. This procedure is risky anyway but it also requires a general anaethetic, that in itself is a risk, of 1 in 100 not surviving due to injury/death.

The bunny hopping was a major symptom of my horses wobblers, as was his long neck, and the fact he was a gelding, geldings, Quarter horses, shires and WB's are more likely to develop wobblers and horses with long necks (due to cervical instability/more chance of injury to long necks).

If you type Cruz and Universit of Ontario and Wobblers into Google you will get a fabby fact sheet from a very experienced consultant who had researched at length Wobblers/CVM. I cant get the link up at the moment myself.

My ten year old WB gelding had this at the age of ten following a fall in the field - he was Grade 3 and was pts upon diagnosis as he had too many vetebrae affected for an operation with the bagby basket, and he was too dangerous to keep as a paddock ornament as he was so unsteady on his legs. A word of warning - please don't rely on xray using a portable xray mc that your vet brings to the yard as its not sttrong enough to penetrate the muscles on the neck, and the xrays Rommy had showed he was fine, two weeks later he was pts, his spinal column had narrowed with extra bone formation from 51mm to 17mm. You need to be referred to an equine clinic with a decent sized xray machine, unless times have changed and the machines are better than the portable one used for my horse in 2004.

Good luck

Couldn't have put this any better.

Very informative and accurate answer.

 

[Birker2020]

Couldn't have put this any better.

Very informative and accurate answer.

Thank you AH. I just wish I didn't know the answer in a way, because that would have meant I hadn't gone through the heartache of personal experience of losing Rommy who was so dear to me.

But that would also mean I wouldn't have my lovely horse who i bought after Rommy's death, and that would be a crying shame.

 

[tinawales]

Thank you for your informative response. I recognise that after your own tragic experience that you have built up a fund of knowledge.

I have visited every website (including those mentioned) which gives information about wobblers and herpes, protozoa etc. Can't see anything which fits except narrowed spinal canal in cervical vertebrae. We do not have masses of red clover,bracken etc, the most poisonous plant we have is buttercup,and no sprays have been used on or near the land.

The yearling is a filly - which makes it a bit more unusual. She has grown quickly and is a warmblood although not overfed and not particularly long in the neck, rather on the short side for a WB. No falls involving the neck that we are aware of (of course on never knows what hooning youngsters may be doing at dawn), no evidence of any infection, no illness (herpes seems to have other obvious symptoms), heat, swelling, no sensitivity of back when pressed with fingers or ballpoint. Unlikely to have been cast as only inside a few nights in last 4 months in an enormous box - mostly out in rug. All we have is this intermittent but increasing change in action which was very subtle but is now more apparent, particularly in the canter bunny hops, coupled with the falls associated with stopping (when having a belt about the field with a friend) which look as if the back end doesn't get the message that the front end has stopped. When excited and trotting the gait impairment is not apparent. It is in walk, working trot on a lead and in free canter that it appears particularly noticeable.

The assessment is to be carried out at an equine hospital which has proper installed powerful X-ray equipment. We will go for a myelogram if necessary - I do not want to pts without certainty that she cannot have a good life so will have to accept the risks if the x-rays are not determinative. Whatever the vet says we will give her a carefully watched summer of life to see if growth resolves the issue (unless she deteriorates).

What I was asking really was - have I missed any potential areas of research - could it possibly be anything else? Just a desperate plea I suppose that there could be something else...I have an excellent equine vet who will discuss and does not take umbrage if clients seek to inform themselves in advance or during treatment, in fact he welcomes it. It sounds as though I have researched all the matters that you, with your recent sad experience, had knowledge of.

I am genuinely grateful for your long and informed response. I am preparing myself for the worst.

 

[Birker2020]

Thank you for your informative response. I recognise that after your own tragic experience that you have built up a fund of knowledge.

I have visited every website (including those mentioned) which gives information about wobblers and herpes, protozoa etc. Can't see anything which fits except narrowed spinal canal in cervical vertebrae. We do not have masses of red clover,bracken etc, the most poisonous plant we have is buttercup,and no sprays have been used on or near the land.

The yearling is a filly - which makes it a bit more unusual. She has grown quickly and is a warmblood although not overfed and not particularly long in the neck, rather on the short side for a WB. No falls involving the neck that we are aware of (of course on never knows what hooning youngsters may be doing at dawn), no evidence of any infection, no illness (herpes seems to have other obvious symptoms), heat, swelling, no sensitivity of back when pressed with fingers or ballpoint. Unlikely to have been cast as only inside a few nights in last 4 months in an enormous box - mostly out in rug. All we have is this intermittent but increasing change in action which was very subtle but is now more apparent, particularly in the canter bunny hops, coupled with the falls associated with stopping (when having a belt about the field with a friend) which look as if the back end doesn't get the message that the front end has stopped. When excited and trotting the gait impairment is not apparent. It is in walk, working trot on a lead and in free canter that it appears particularly noticeable.

The assessment is to be carried out at an equine hospital which has proper installed powerful X-ray equipment. We will go for a myelogram if necessary - I do not want to pts without certainty that she cannot have a good life so will have to accept the risks if the x-rays are not determinative. Whatever the vet says we will give her a carefully watched summer of life to see if growth resolves the issue (unless she deteriorates).

What I was asking really was - have I missed any potential areas of research - could it possibly be anything else? Just a desperate plea I suppose that there could be something else...I have an excellent equine vet who will discuss and does not take umbrage if clients seek to inform themselves in advance or during treatment, in fact he welcomes it. It sounds as though I have researched all the matters that you, with your recent sad experience, had knowledge of.

I am genuinely grateful for your long and informed response. I am preparing myself for the worst.

Please keep us updated and let me know how you get on. It depends what they grade your filly as I think, as to what her prognosis will be if she does have CVM/Wobblers. I think the case with my horse was that if you lightly pushed him he would/could topple over. I know they kept some affected horses on box rest for a period but I think the general consensus was that although this could help it wouldn't cure.

It could be that your horse has another back problem in which case the xrays should show this. Interesting you remark about the bunny hop though. My horse was competing discovery classes (and getting the odd double clear/places) up until two months prior to him being pts even though he wasn't quite 'right'. Sometimes he'd be fine, but nearly every time I rode he'd do this funny bunny hop with his back legs, when you sat on him it felt like you were being thrown out of the saddle upwards, not from side to side as with a disunited canter. I'd stop him, rein back and strike off into canter, and he would be fine afterwards. Very weird, it was if this unlocked his neck. That's when I started to get suspicious of Wobblers.

Your vet sounds good, mine just tries hard not to laugh if I pronounce a word wrong, or, suggest something else, and in my friends case gets mightly annoyed if she dares to question his judgement.

You seem like a straight forward and sensible person and like you have done all the research you can do. I wish you the very best of luck at the equine hospital, and hope you find your diagnosis - yes, it might be not want you want to hear, but it will help, believe me to know what direction to go in, instead of feeling like I did, helpless and stumbling around in the dark.

 

[tinawales]

Thank you I will keep you updated. Keep your fingers crossed for Wednesday.

She was so lovely as a foal, my daughter had earmarked her as "steal this from Mum as soon as its 3", and I have had her Dam from a yearling (now13) so long for, but do not expect, good news.

At the moment she is well in herself and turned out with a sober broodmare so little risk of further falls as they potter about grazing. I do not like the steady incremental increase in affected action, it does not bode well. You have been there so you do understand the distress this is causing - hours of research and no promising "get out clauses".

 

[Always Henesy]

Thank you I will keep you updated. Keep your fingers crossed for Wednesday.

She was so lovely as a foal, my daughter had earmarked her as "steal this from Mum as soon as its 3", and I have had her Dam from a yearling (now13) so long for, but do not expect, good news.

At the moment she is well in herself and turned out with a sober broodmare so little risk of further falls as they potter about grazing. I do not like the steady incremental increase in affected action, it does not bode well. You have been there so you do understand the distress this is causing - hours of research and no promising "get out clauses".

Sadly I too have been there. I understand how anxious and worried you are. I will be thinking of you on Wednesday and will look out for your update.
((hugs)) anyway as I think you need them. xx

 

[tinawales]

Sadly she fell and injured herself in the field on Sunday. She had emergency treatment from local equine vet and has been in on pain killers since then. The equine hospital vet came out today on his way to work: grade 2-3 wobbler. So we are pts to day. Bloody heart breaking.

 

[Vodkagirly]

So sorry to hear

 

[Birker2020]

Sadly she fell and injured herself in the field on Sunday. She had emergency treatment from local equine vet and has been in on pain killers since then. The equine hospital vet came out today on his way to work: grade 2-3 wobbler. So we are pts to day. Bloody heart breaking.

So sorry to hear this. Finadyne stabilised my horse when he had an ataxic episode but it can only be given for five days. Even if she had of been given this on Sunday it would have still been the same outcome after five days treatment.

so sorry x

 

[tinawales]

Thank you. The fynadyne was to keep her out of pain whilst her condition was assessed rather than a treatment for the underlying condition.

I doubt that the shoulder injury caused by the fall could have been overcome but it was necessary to evaluate her "wobble" symtoms as, if she proved not to be a wobbler, I could have considered keeping her as a broodmare if the vet was hopeful that the shoulder would heal with treatment. Sadly as it seems likely there is a genetic link to wobblers and it is almost always a progressive disease that was not an option once the syndrome was clearly established. Not sensible to put an animal through extensive painful treatment for her to detriorate from a progessive disease.

Being sensible does not stop it being very distressing. However her problems are now over and I am fortunate in having a number of horses so not as bad as for "only one" owners. It still hurts tho'.