Wobblers, false positives, etc - long!

Nudibranch

Nudibranch

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My TB x drum gelding turned 3 in May. I am going to be asking the vet to test for Wobblers, but can't figure out if I am being paranoid and seeing things because I'm looking for them. First question - would a positive in the tail test indicate anything else or could it be just "one of those things"? Second question - a potted history if anyone can be bothered to read. This is what I'll be telling the vet and I guess I am just hoping there could be another explanation but I have a bad feeling...

Currently 3 years 4 months and standing 16.3. Grew very quickly as a yearling / 2yo.

No issues whatsoever as a foal.

Around 13 months, hind toes showed some wear which quickly passed. Farrier put it down to a tweak from playing.

Shortly after, picking feet up became a major problem. Hinds, then fronts. Never a problem at all before. Farrier said he was trying it on, I felt it was more than this. He seemed to have problems actually balancing and couldn't work out how to stand on three legs - never a difficulty before. He still has some problems standing on three legs and needs time and a hand to place himself before asking.

I observed him slipping and falling over several times in the field playing as a yearling and 2 yo. Could be nothing I admit!

Now in long reining, he occasionally shows what I can only describe as a "silly walk", where it's almost as if he forgets how to walk for a few minutes. The four time rhythm goes all to pot and he walks very toe-first. Then it seems to pass.

Toe first landing going uphill.

Tail sway test is fairly effective in that I can pull his quarters right over at walk, to the point he veers right off the road and has to stop. Some days it's not as bad - is this typical or should he be evenly poor at this?!

Tail sometimes has little tone and I can get it right up without any resistance; some days there's a little more but not a lot.

To be honest, reading that back I am thinking it's not looking good. Any thoughts? It's a damned waste of a good, big horse if he is wobblers - I am gutted.
 
this is a good link to a neuro test for a possible wobblers/CVM horse. http://www.equinewobblers.com/diagnostics/neurological_examination.html
Like a previous poster wrote, the only reliable diagnosis is by Xray but make sure its a powerful xray machine used at an equine hospital as my wobblers horse was xrayed in 2004 and the machine gave a false reading because the portable xray machine used by my vets at the time was not strong enough to penetrate the neck muscles sufficiently to give an accurate reading.

I hope it isn't wobblers but if it is then it can in some cases be operated on depending on which vetebrae are affected. My horse had C3, C4 and C6 and I was told C6 involvement is usually worst case scenario. My horse was 10 when he was PTS with CVM after a fall in the field. Wobblers doesn't always involve young horses as most people believe.
His spinal column allowed a gap of 17mm where it should have been 51mm which meant the nerves to the cord were becoming trapped leading to the swaying and ataxic episodes he encountered. It took a long time for a diagnosis as the vet thought it was EHV but eventually on my insistence he was referred to Liverpool where following tests and comprehensive xrays he was sadly PTS within two hours of arriving as a 'hopeless' case being unoperable and not even the chance of being a field ornament as he was classed as too dangerous as he was so ataxic.

The movement behind that you describe can be caused by a number of things not just wobblers so try not to panic at this stage but get a dignosis as soon as you can.

I hope it works out for you x
 
My boy has just been diagnosed as 3/5 on the wobbler scale- he was competing successfully at 90-100cm eventing up until a month ago.

PM me if you like- he was absolutely fine backing up but had some issues mainly in walk which were becoming more apparent.

The only way to know really is to take him for a work up at the vets- don't just have someone from your local vet out.

We took my boy to 3 Counties to be seen by Chris Rea and he was superb- not the diagnosis we wanted at all and I'm completely gutted but couldn't fault the vet work we had last week at all :(
 
millitiger said:
My boy has just been diagnosed as 3/5 on the wobbler scale- he was competing successfully at 90-100cm eventing up until a month ago.
.

QUOTE]

Like Militigers my wobblers boy was jumping BS discovery quite happily and without an issue until about a month before he had his last ataxic episode. In between the three ataxia episodes he was fine, and because the first two were so slight and subtle and the vets/chiro and physio couldn't find anything wrong he continued to be ridden.

The only thing that I found odd was the rubbing of the hind fetlocks whilst out in the field and the bunny hop canter that he would display from time to time that dissapeared and reappeared continually in schooling sessions.

I even paid a famous professional rider to get on him in the collecting ring once at a show and he reined him back and the bunny hop dissapeared and he felt he was fine apart from the funny canter.
Sorry to hear about your horse Militiger
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Thanks for the info both of you. Mine can move backwards but it is uncoordinated and yesterday for example, he stood on his own hoof. Front legs go first, then he finds himself all four together then a chaotic sequence. Applecart do you know of any other conditions which could give similar symptoms?

I have LOU on him but am wondering if they'll try and avoid paying out as he's not broken yet...anyone have any experience of this? I also have 5K vets fees, hope this is enough. I guess if the vet can't find anything I can ask for a referral but it seems as clear as day to me. He's just so clumsy.
 
I dont see how they can say pre existing though when he has never been seen by a vet for it. That would be speculation... a bit like saying arthritis must have been there already, or PPID. Most likely all non emergency conditions are already there when a vet first sees them....?
 
I would suggest getting vet to refer him to one of the big hospitals.

You need somewhere that offers full body x-rays, nuclear scans etc which will generally mean a referral.

My vet did not see any issue with it being classed as an existing issue and insurance not paying- as you say, anything bar an accident would come uunder that category.
 
I would have thought you could get LOU if he has wobblers. Also in the case of wobbles some vets will pts under the banner of 'humane destruction' in order for the owner to be paid out through the insurance but only if the horse is deemed as being not fair to keep alive i.e in my horses case because he was classified as dangerous as he could have fallen on anyone at any time as he was so bad, grade 3/4. Also he could have fallen in the field and been recumbent (unable to rise) so for humane reasons was PTS under the BEVA guidelines of humane destruction.


RIP Rommy, never forgotten but always missed x
 
millitiger said:
I would suggest getting vet to refer him to one of the big hospitals.

You need somewhere that offers full body x-rays, nuclear scans etc which will generally mean a referral.

My vet did not see any issue with it being classed as an existing issue and insurance not paying- as you say, anything bar an accident would come uunder that category.
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However it clearly was a pre existing condition as the OP has admitted that on an open forum(potential ins fraud). The majority of wobblers are born with it to some degree. Remember the horse is only recently insured so most insurers would be very quick to pick that up. That is why I asked if it had been insured all of its life. The OP may be OK with insurers but we all know the ones that will question it. I would suggest to OP if you wish to go ahead with the claim get this thread taken down.
 
Well, yesterday I cancelled his insurance and have decided to "retire" the horse as a companion. As my farrier pointed out yesterday, is a diagnosis going to make any difference? No. I will keep him as long as he is not a danger to himself or me but I would never trust him under saddle regardless of whether he is diagnosed or not.

Popsdosh, wobblers generally do not show symptoms as foals and insurers tend to go by vets' diagnoses... I think taking the thread down is a bit ott (even if that issue is now irrelevant).
 
Very sensible decision I feel as wobblers really are an accident waiting to happen; I've known one person killed and others injured by either not being careful enough around them or not knowing they had the condition as let's face it, they do look like perfectly healthy horses; it would be so much easier if they even looked a little ill! I hope his retirement goes well for you both.

My vet's tips for dealing with a wobbler are -

always be aware where they are;
try never to be in a confined space with them and if you have to, always make sure of an escape route;
make sure everyone who is ever likely to handle the horse are aware of the condition and what to look for,
be realistic enough to know when to call it a day before anyone gets hurt.
 
Nudibranch said:
Popsdosh, wobblers generally do not show symptoms as foals and insurers tend to go by vets' diagnoses... I think taking the thread down is a bit ott (even if that issue is now irrelevant).
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Different insurers would take different views, However a wobbler invariably was born like it as you said yourself things in the past gave you doubts. They nearly always become an issue when backing or soon after as they are put under stress. Why I mentioned taking down the post was for your protection if you were to claim as big brother watches the forums! However as you say irrelevant now
 
popsdosh said:
However it clearly was a pre existing condition as the OP has admitted that on an open forum(potential ins fraud). The majority of wobblers are born with it to some degree. Remember the horse is only recently insured so most insurers would be very quick to pick that up. That is why I asked if it had been insured all of its life. The OP may be OK with insurers but we all know the ones that will question it. I would suggest to OP if you wish to go ahead with the claim get this thread taken down.
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A lot of horses develop late onset wobblers due to damage to their vertebrae which causes calcification to build and results in impingement on the nerves/cord. I might be wrong in the way I remembered the OP's original post but did she not say her horse had got cast in the stable. This could be a case where she would be able to claim and OP if you ever read my reply I would strongly recommend that you do so.
 
I had a similar situation to you, bought a 6mo, had her for two years and then at about 2 started just being a bit 'odd'. One hind hoof grew strangely, then farrier couldn't trim as she couldnt balance and that had never been a problem before. I had always noticed like you said her tail - there was no resistance i could throw it around everywhere.. anyway she lost her back end a couple of times so called vet out who did all the tests and she passed all of them - even walking blindfolded and the pulling tail when walking. A couple of weeks later lost her back end again and vet came out and she was staggering behind and failed all the tests, but an hour later was back to normal. Did x-rays and told she was a wobbler, had 2 second opinions and they said not. She like yours grew super quickly and was 16.2 by the time she was 18mo. She was always happy and chirpy and literally the nicest prettiest mare you could meet, bold as brass and i couldn't wait for breaking etc.. knew she would make an awesome eventer. Then gradually she had other 'odd' problems, nothing anyone could properly diagnose, a weird hoof, a weird gait - but not a classic wobbler one, a strange manner with her neck sometimes. We went on for months with her not in pain but just plain odd some of the time but happy as larry the rest of the time. Long story short she ended up being PTS as came in from the field not weight bearing on one of her legs.. vet said to me 'she has made your decision for you'.. could have had X-rays box rest etc but it was the culmination of a long strange journey and felt she was saying 'enough'. I will never know if she was a wobbler, or what her weird foot was about, but i think for your horse being a companion whilst he is safe is the right decision. Sorry for the essay, I guess want I wanted to say was gutted for you and know exactly how cheated and disappointed you must feel. I nurtured mine for nearly 3 years and had so much to look forward to, and now have nothing. Miss her every day, and its so painful watching people continuing with their youngsters and i even have a friend who has a sister of hers which is a real kick in the teeth every time I see her enjoying her pone. But mine was the right decision I don't doubt it, and so is yours. I don't believe wobblers is so text book anymore.. i think it presents in all sorts of peculiar ways... it also seems to be more and more prevalent.

Anyway I am rambling - just wanted to say a massive bad luck and know exactly how you feel. If you want to PM for any more info feel free...
 
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