Work with horses, be poor / Have a regular job & afford things?

dressagelove

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Inspired by the ' what's your dream job thread' in NL. Got me thinking again...

I have heard advantages and disadvantages of both sides, but;

a) Work with horses. Dream job, struggle for money (at least initially), work long hours, sacrifice seeing OH etc? Difficult economic conditions as it is...

b) Have a normal job which will never be 100% what I want to do, but enjoy it, be comfortable, be able to afford horses, nice car, holidays, children etc. I'm presuming of course its a good job :)

I am getting to the end of my uni years, and still don't know which path to take. I can see the drawbacks of both. I am just TERRIFIED of getting to the other end of my life, and going ' I wish I had gone for it...'

What are others thoughts? I bet a lot of people would like to work with horses, but because it isn't an easily viable option....please make me feel better about turning away from it?!
 

crabbymare

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Done both! My advice would be to finish uni so you have got qualifications, once you have got them thats finished with and its easier to study straight from school while you are in the habit of it. Then if you are going to work with horses do it while you are young, go off and work abroad if you want to, but its something a lot of people do grow out of after a few years although obviously some people do make a lifetime career of it. When you have had enough of doing horses for other people and want to do more with your own use your uni degree and try to find a job that pays well so you can enjoy your own horse.
There are jobs where you can take your horse and get time and training to allow you to compete if you want to but they are not so easy to get as there are a lot more people after them.
Whatever you do enjoy yourself, you are only young once :)
 

jess_asterix

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For me personally it would be a good job and not have to struggle as I have been very privileged do far and would like to think that I could support a family and provide for them in the way my parents have done.

Also although I live my horses I think I would not enjoy working with them as for me it would take the enjoyment out of it.
 

Zebedee

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Done both too. Wish I hadn't spent so many years working for peanuts, too tired & broke to enjoy my own horses.
I now work in a totally non equine industry, & have my own yard with time & money for my own horses - no time or money for myself but that's a lifestyle choice !
 

TarrSteps

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Re option a) you forgot to add "get hurt and either soldier on if it's not too bad or not be able to work anymore" and I wouldn't assume the struggle for money will be temporary. ;)

I think it was John Gielgud who said, "The only reason to be an actor is because you can't not be one," and I'd say that's pretty good advice for horses, too. If you really want to do it and you understand what you're getting into then now's the time, for sure. But be aware, if you don't have family support, it will be a hard, hard road.

One thing you need to think about, just like in any other industry, is what sort of job you want to be doing. If you answered "competition rider" have you been relatively successful in your junior years? It's very difficult to break into the professional ranks without already having some success behind you. While people do work their way up from being grooms, it's almost always that they have experience already and are on the "rider track" from the start. What is your "dream job" as you call it? Do you have a job on offer? (I went to university but I'd already been a working student and worked in the horse industry while I was studying - probably the last time in my life I was making more than most of my peers! :D)

Can you afford to do it, even now? Do you have debts to pay every month? Can you afford to live away from the yard or are you prepared to put up with whatever accommodation in on offer? Are you free to travel? Do you have to be able to keep a horse or even a dog?

To be perfectly honest, the industry is not in great shape right now. Yes, there will always be jobs for skilled, dedicated people but realistically it's getting more competitive by the day. If you're already thinking you should do something else, honestly, I'd say do that and see how it goes. Have a horse and enjoy riding for yourself. If you really, really want to go back to horses as a job, you can do it. (It's much harder to start your working life in horses and then go to something else than vice versa!)
 

millitiger

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I have done both too.

I worked with horses for about 4 years as a groom and then 2nd rider.

There are so many other downsides in general to working with horses than the ones you have mentioned- getting injured, losing the motivation to ride your own horses, no time to ride your own horses, horrid bosses seem much more common in horsey jobs than normal jobs.
Make sure you are being paid through the right streams otherwise you will have no pension when you are older!

I don't regret the years I spent working with horses as I was lucky enough to get jobs with loats of riding and international travel BUT I also really don't regret changing over to a normal job- I am in a much better financial position and equally important, I have the time and motivation to do my own horses everyday which I really struggled with when I was working with horses too.
 

CrazyMare

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I went for option B - I don't earn as much as my peers, but at 24 I manage to keep a nice - old, but nice car, 3 horses one of whom is a broodmare, I get to compete, hunt etc as I want.

I'm glad I chose this option.
 

Allover

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I have done both, i took a few years out of horsey work to get a "proper job" and did well (i was in sales). I turned into a sloth!! I did not have my own horse but could ride others and would go back to a previous horse job on my days off/holiday etc for a bit of exercise and to get my "fix", Twas not for me though.

I love working with horses, yes there are lots of downsides but "those" moments that a horse brings to your life makes all the hardship worthwhile.

I think to do the job as a career you need to have a very thick skin and be able to stand up for yourself. I have worked in many countries and have learnt a second language well and a third i can get by in. I can also order a cup of tea in 5 languages (very important skill to have!!). I have been in some very good and some very bad yards. I am fortunate that i have had a few jobs that pay very well so i do have some money to fall back on. It is also an industry that you will normally never be out of work and normally get a roof over your head (may not be a very nice roof but............)

I will also add that in todays climate, with house, fuel and basics prices rocketing, to have a job where you can afford to keep a roof over your head and food in your belly AND keep a horse is rare, especially if you are on your own.

Best of luck in whatever you decide :)
 

MagicMelon

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Just make sure if you do get a normal boring job, get a well paid one. Mine doesnt pay well enough to support my horses and competing...! So I do a job which is far from what I want to do in life, is very stressful and yet I cant afford to compete as much as I used to. Sucks! Hence why my OH and I are doing something about it (looking into other things to do outwith work - for example OH is training to be a wedding photographer).
 

livvyc_ria

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I have just handed my notice in at work today to enter the horsey industry.

Ive worked 2 years in a well paid job. I can afford to keep my horses, compete them comfortably and train with top instructors. But for 5 days of the week i am utterly miserable. My salary gives me a certain amount of freedom but it doesnt bring me happiness.

So bye bye office, hello 3am starts, wheelbarrows and mud!
 

Firewell

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B
I hate slogging my guts out cleaning up other peoples horse crap for a pittance, also it's not very challenging intellectually.

I got a job working shifts for a company organising repatriations for ill people abroad and sending out doctor escorts, getting medical reports, paying hospital bills in the foreign countries ect.

I took it because the hours were brilliant for fitting riding around, the shifts were 6.45-2.15 and 1.45-9.15 so I either had all morning or all afternoon to ride and I just paid someone a couple of quid to t/o or bring in.

I thought I would hate it as I'm not good with anything medical but turned out I was really good at it! I loved the pressure of organising things to a time frame, I loved helping people and talking to them and the time always flew by. The company was great to work for, I was rolling in dosh, it was fab. I helped move a girl who was critically ill in Africa with Malaria. She was out the back of beyond and sitting in my office in the UK ringing our African agents, medical team and the air ambulance crew, I used to coordinate all the different parties and pay the bill. We got her
moved in to a civilised hospital in
time to save her life. I flew her parents out there, found and paid for their hotels and then when she was better flew them all back to England.
That was just 1 case out if millions of different ones every year. It was a fascinating job and far far more interesting, well paid and rewarding IMO then mucking out and turning out some whinging persons horse or being made to ride all the naughty ones!

I would find something you love that pays well to do alongside horses. Just because it's not horsie doesn't mean you won't enjoy it. My passion is horses but being made to work with them took the pleasure out for me and I never had time or money for my own horse.
 

Britestar

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Always B. Have done A, enjoyed it, but reality meant B had to happen.

It is actually possible to get a job you enjoy, that pays. Sometimes that job isn't what you planned to get, but it works out well anyway.
 

imr

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I think it depends on a few things, and also remember you can change your mind.

Firstly, on the level of talent you have, track record competing, horsepower. The reason I say this is that even if not well paid if you get a job which is more riding than poo shovelling and you get the opportunity to really improve and train so you can get out there and do well, that is one thing. Getting a job where you are just being a groom is not much fun and it has not much in the way of career progression either. If longer term its realistic to become a good rider and trainer then it may not be the lap of luxury but you can make an ok living. My two are stabled with a well known dressage rider and trainer, and he seems to do ok out of the yard, some breeding and producing and a lot of riding and training - he works hard. He employs a girl to ride for him, who is early 20s and previously rode for another dressage trainer. She does not get paid very well, but the job is 90% riding and no mucking out and she rides under his supervision most days, a whole range of horses and gets to compete a couple of them too. Her hours are not bad and she can often leave early afternoon so can teach and ride other horses too. She obviosuly does not want to work for someone else forever but right now it means she is getting good training and experience and can also start to build up some freelance work. She is already a good rider who has competed up to Adv Med, been on the junior teams etc and she has a couple of horses of her own. I would echo what others have said though about injuries and enjoyment - everyone I know who is a pro has had an injury, some very bad, and they all tell me that it becomes a job and so its no longer a way to relax or have fun, and even if youre not in the mood you still have to get on and ride.

So, as regards "normal" jobs. You will be graduating at one of the worst times in living memory for employment of young graduates, so that may also force your hand. One of my friends (a pro) employs a girl to ride and as a groom who did an architecture degree, and realised on finishing uni that she didnt massively want to be an architect plus there were no jobs at all, so decided to do horses, at least for the moment. But, a lot depends on your own circumstances and what you have studied etc. Some jobs are more horse compatible than others. Firstly there is the issue of money given horses are not cheap, and if you want a really nice horse they usually cost quite a bit. But there is also a time/money balance. So teachers arent brilliantly paid, but teaching is not so hard to combine with finding the time to have a horse on DIY. Anything that lends itself to job sharing, flexible working etc will help hugely on the time front, so you need less money to pay expensive livery. There is also the issue of when you start in the morning and finish in the evening and how set that is. In other words, think about the logistics. At my yard one of our liveries is a freelancer who works from home, she gets to ride in the middle of the day and still do her job. One is a hairdresser so she can make her hours work because there is demand for her to work evenings and weekends so most days she can ride in the daytime. One of the others like me works in London and rarely rides in the week because she starts very early. I am in professional services so whilst my hours can be dire it goes in patches and generallly I get stuck in the evening and the mornings I dont start til 9ish so I can ride before work. So, if you dont do horses, whatever you do, do something you enjoy (well most of the time), isnt paid too craply (or at least will be paid non-craply eventually) and which you can make work with the horses.
 

Allover

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It does depend on what direction you want to go in with regards to the horsey work.

I am a groom and after all these years i still like to shovel ****!!! I like to ride but it is not the be all and end all for me.

I love going to shows and travelling around Europe and i adore looking after competition horses.

TBF compared to some of the grooms on the SJ circuit i am a complete novice - and i am fairly old!! - they live, eat, sleep (if they are lucky) SJ, it is all they do and what they know best, i presume it is for any "top" competition groom. It is a way of life and certainly not a job! It is not something i have the will to do all the time though.

There are so many directions to go in, be it as a rider, groom, vet, vet nurse, teaching, teaching people with learning diffficulties, rescue centers, magazine work, photography........................ the list goes on and on!

It is also one of those jobs that you learn from all the time. And once you have a decent level of experience and the correct attitude you can go anywhere and do anything horsey related.
 

sbloom

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I have a business degree which still comes in useful but after umpteen years of not using it, it will not get me a job At all. I would suggest you go into industry or whatever, use your degree for a few years and get a good CV. ONLY then if you still have a yearning for working with horses, should you leave the mainstream career path. I love my work as a saddle fitter but currently could not possibly afford to have a horse - I do work some very long days and would need part livery, so it's just not possible. I have no regrets about my degree etc but I have no hope of getting a job that depends on it.
 

Llanali

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I did horses.... Briefly. The liveries drove me mad, the hours drove me into the ground, my brain melted and I didn't like my own mares anymore. The girl I world with loved it though, and will be a groom for life I think, and a very good one at that.

I moved on into supply chain consultancy. Dull sometimes, stressfull all the time, pays better.

Imr makes very excellent points about flexibility, and spotted cat (? It's on the other page!) makes a good one about a normal job still not paying enough. I dont have enough time and paying extra for services means there isn't enough money to compete. Hopefully one day!!
 

hmccord

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TBH I think unless you become a banker, having a 'normal' job and be able to look after a horse is still a massive struggle :eek:

Not necessarily - I have worked in finance in London for 4 years now, regularly doing 8am - 8pm in the office, I don't earn enough to keep a horse in Livery anywhere near London and the only time I would get to ride is on a Saturday or Sunday. If I could afford keep on a horse on livery in the vicinity of London very few yards are open prior to 6am or after 9pm that I could go out to and ride my horse if I had him there. I am currently investigating every possible opportunity I can to get out of finance and into an equine based career but unfortunately there don't seem to be very many that have a defined career path to follow. I worked full time with horses for a year prior to moving to London but due to injury I had to stop riding (couldn't even walk) so I very much understand that employment in the equine industry is a very precarious situation to be in at times. As far as I can see teaching is about the only outside career that would allow the time to compete/ride at a highish level
 

noodle_

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i did two weeks work experience workin gon a yard and hated it!


id never ever want to work with horses (i did apply for equine science though! and realised it would be pointless)!

I now do a business and management degree and my horse is a hobby, nothing more! :)
 

TarrSteps

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Re the non-horsey jobs, both here and in North America, nurses and teachers are over represented in the horsey population and I don't think that's a fluke. But those are both tough jobs that don't pay fantastically and opportunities for advancement are limited so it's a trade off. Otherwise, i think most people do have to make a trade off somewhere along the "horse vs job" line so it's not reasonable to expect otherwise.

Re my earlier post, I made the choice to work with horses or to have a horse, effectively. When I had a good horse I basically worked for him, taking jobs that allowed me to keep him, get training etc. I was lucky, too, as he was a sound horse, won quite a bit (so helped me business-wise) but he was also tricky to keep so limited my housing options. It was only after he retired (to be leased out and contribute to the pot instead of only taking out of it) that I was able to work a bit more for myself, go out on my own, take more horses to ride, choose where I lived etc. I'd say having that horse was ESSENTIAL to getting decent jobs - he was a good showcase - but he very much limited my options in many ways so it was a trade off.

I would also second the "thick skinned" comment above. It can be a pretty brutal business and I've found myself in some not very nice situations (broken heat in a loft apartment - no joke in Canadian winter!) that I was really unable to get out of immediately. Just saying . . . ;)

And I've been very lucky! :)
 

Mince Pie

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Re option a) you forgot to add "get hurt and either soldier on if it's not too bad or not be able to work anymore"
Exactly the position I am in now...but I wouldn't have changed my experiences for the world and I think they have helped me become a better horse owner.
 

Honey08

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I've done both too.

For me, the horsey world stopped being my hobby and became a job. I certainly couldn't afford my own horse when I worked with horses, but it didn't really matter as I got to compete and hunt other people's horses (although this often involved a lot of re schooling when owner/boss decided "he could do it too" on my dads off, and undid a lot of my progress!). The crunch came for me when I wanted to get a mortgage etc - no chance whatsoever with horses..

Now I have a non horsey job that pays much better, and I have a nice house and small yard of my own. I often look back with rose tinited glasses on working with horses, and think about doing livery from my yard, but the snow and bad weather usually gives me a reality check!

I would say follow your heart while you are young, and your head when you are older! You have nothing to lose when young - I did A levels at nightschool while working with horses and went to university at the age of 23. You don't have to do everything at the "standard" ages.. When you're older with responsibilities its harder to change course.
 

hmccord

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Just out of curiosity (and I don't want to hijack this thread) what sort of jobs do people have that enable them to have both a non equestrian career and still keep and compete horses as well? I'd genuinely be very interested in this as it's something I'm trying to look into at the moment.
 

FrodoBeutlin

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What a difficult thread! I don't have an answer, nor advice. I have spent the whole of my life working towards one very specific career (i.e. academia). I invested so much in it (not financially, more in terms of time and effort) and my whole life has been planned with that one goal in mind (yes I am very driven ;) )
I always loved horses, but I thought I wouldn't want to work with them (issues with making your passion your job and all that) - always felt it was much better to get a good job that would enable me to afford good horses.
Then one day this summer for a number of reasons I started working as a groom at my old yard and it literally changed everything. First of all, it was the best time of my life. For the first time ever I was doing something that I LOVED (to use an euphemism!) doing, and it was a shock. When I left (I had to leave, because I wasn't brave enough to give up my chosen 'career' to work with horses) I was totally heart-broken and I still am (and still very unsure that I actually made the right decision!), so much so that I feel I ended up buying that 2yo I wrote about mainly because he was a souvenir of my time there :eek:
Yes, of course it's very rare that there is money in a career with horses. But without wanting to use clichès, some things *are* priceless. I was working with and occasionally riding horses of amazing quality, the kind of training I was getting is the stuff dreams are made of - really, it was the kind of education that no amount of money in the world can buy. When in my life will I ever be able to say again that I piaffed on a horse who represented Germany at international Grand Prix? To me that is far higher up in my list of priorities than having my dream car!
And, before I actually started working with horses (yes I had done the odd part-time grooming/riding job as a student, but that doesn't really count) I had no idea anybody could be THAT happy in the workplace. I literally had a smile on my face every minute of the day. I am not a morning person, yet I couldn't wait to get up in the morning to jump down the last three steps of the stairs and be with 'my' horses. So there you go. I am a coward, and I left - in tears, but I still left. You are definitely young enough to try, and if you don't like it, you can always go back to a non-horsey career.
 

dressagelove

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Maybe I should give you some more info about me as well, as I am bit of a special case! lol

I have already worked for two years on event yard, loved every moment to begin with, but a year in and I met my OH. The job then became too much as I wanted to see him more. The last year was pretty awful, it suddenly became work, and it wasnt fun anymore.
I think I am, like Honey08 says, looking back in rose tinted glasses at it, and remembering it better than I experienced it.

I am studying a subject I do have a passion for, and feel I could contribute towards the world [environment] which inspires me, and I have a definite job in a very large and successful family company. I am very lucky and have a lot of savings behind me already, as parents are well off, and pretty much have the world at my feet!

I feel if I go to work in the company, as long as I had enough time to dedicate to riding and competing, I would be happy. I am just worried I wont have enough time, as the family is strict about working; they all work bl**dy hard, long hours to make the company a success. I get that, but still want enough time to do my horses. I am going to go and talk to my cousin and see what kind of 'deal' we could come to about hours, but as far as my dad is concerned, I would have to work harder, as well as longer than everyone else.

I want to be a dressage rider etc, but if I am being completely honest with myself, I'm not sure I have the talent, thick skin and skills to get to the top anyway, and it is coming to terms with all that...
 

imr

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hmccord, happy to fess up. At a guess you work nearish me so maybe some of this can be helpful.

I'm a corporate lawyer with a big city firm. I have been doing this a while so I am quite senior and I am well paid. This means I can afford to have them on full livery which means they will be ridden if I cannot make it. When I was younger (im 37) (and she was younger) mum used to help out if I was stuck (I was on part livery). When I started out mum still had a yard. I earned 18.5k a year as a trainee (they get so much more now!) so I really struggled then. I used to cover horse's costs plus some extra and work in the yard at the weekend. To be honest I was exhausted all the time and I am incredibly grateful for the fact that my finances have changed to the point where I am now. There have been several hideous deals where I have worked all hours and only been able to ride at the weekend especially in the 06/07 boom years, and when I was more junior and got to be at other people's beck and call more than I am now where its more client beck and call rather than my boss and clients, but if I look overall at the last 13 years it has not been so bad. It makes a huge difference that unlike most investment bankers, because I am a lawyer, I generally do not need to be in the office until 9ish so if I am not swamped then riding does happen. The classic thing is we get docs out to clients in the evening and they want the morning to read them - in general this explains why city lawyers are not nearly so much into the early starts as many other city professions. I am however very disciplined about (not) partying in the week. I went through a few years when this was not the case and my riding suffered - I have made a conscious decision to prioritise horses now. I live out of london in essex so I have a nice fast train and am near the horses, but I also dont have the stupid cost of living in london which I would hate anyway. I have had a longer commute than the one I currently have and ten minutes or so really makes all the difference as I can do door to door in an hour. Plus trains are frequent and good times. I do get dressed very quickly too! I am thinking that if I only rode one horse I could be in the office at 8 every day but I would have to be up about 5:35 and at the yard for 6 which would leave me pretty tired by the end of the week - but timetablewise that would work for you (just!) and provided you were on at least part livery so you were just riding and brushing off and not mucking out etc you could cope. You say you have been in finance for 4 years and unfortunately that has covered the grim of the period since 2008, but presumably the money should get better?

The comments I made in my first post above are mostly because if I had my time again I would have tried to do something that was more flexible.
 

imr

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Maybe I should give you some more info about me as well, as I am bit of a special case! lol

I have already worked for two years on event yard, loved every moment to begin with, but a year in and I met my OH. The job then became too much as I wanted to see him more. The last year was pretty awful, it suddenly became work, and it wasnt fun anymore.
I think I am, like Honey08 says, looking back in rose tinted glasses at it, and remembering it better than I experienced it.

I am studying a subject I do have a passion for, and feel I could contribute towards the world [environment] which inspires me, and I have a definite job in a very large and successful family company. I am very lucky and have a lot of savings behind me already, as parents are well off, and pretty much have the world at my feet!

I feel if I go to work in the company, as long as I had enough time to dedicate to riding and competing, I would be happy. I am just worried I wont have enough time, as the family is strict about working; they all work bl**dy hard, long hours to make the company a success. I get that, but still want enough time to do my horses. I am going to go and talk to my cousin and see what kind of 'deal' we could come to about hours, but as far as my dad is concerned, I would have to work harder, as well as longer than everyone else.

I want to be a dressage rider etc, but if I am being completely honest with myself, I'm not sure I have the talent, thick skin and skills to get to the top anyway, and it is coming to terms with all that...


I think that you have exactly the right plan in going to talk to your family and making a sensible proposal to them. Remember you need to show them how it will work for them, as well as for you, but hopefully there is a compromise just waiting to be made here. Good luck.
 
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