Working Cocker - are they for me?

[LBF]

I am soon going to be moving to a rental property where I will be able to have another dog.
My dog has now become the family dog and I haven't the heart to take him away from my mum who openly says she loves him more than she does me! Hah!
Soooo, enough waffle. Is a working cocker for me?

Rental property is detached, fenced garden on a farm. Dog would be able to come to work with me (office) and I go out for 2 hours @ lunch with other dog already. I like the look of the working strain but are they a bit nuts? I am keen to get back in to agility and with a keen o/h who is into shooting I might like to give beating & Field trials a go.

And where do you start with breeders, has anyone got any recommendations?

Thanks in advance! Livie

 

[jrp204]

Daughter has a working cocker, very sweet but she will run all day. She has done quite a lot of training with her but she needs to keep on top of it constantly. She kennels her whilst at work and she sleeps in the house at night.

 

[Lanky Loll]

Sounds like you'd be fine. I'll admit that mine doesn't get as much work as some, but I have an obedient and very happy working cocker She has the odd mental myrtle moment especially when its time to go for her walk but we've got the basic commands well instilled and she learnt them really quickly, I've just failed dismally to take her to the gundog training classes I meant to go to for more advanced training She responds really well to hand signals so would be great at agility and has heaps of energy but is happy in the evenings to snuggle up on the sofa for a snooze. Fantastic dogs.

 

[Spudlet]

I'd also say you'd be fine, but get the right one! Some working cockers are rocket propelled and really need a home that wants to do serious field trialling, while others are slightly more laid-back types, who still need an active and stimulating life but aren't quite so massively driven. I would say your best bet would be to ask around locally, if you see one you like the look of out walking, maybe ask the owner about them and where they came from. Your oh might have some useful contacts from his shooting too, if someone has a nice beating dog, there's no harm asking where it came from

Sounds like any dog of yours will have a lovely life

 

[Wiz201]

If you're going to do something like agility, a working cocker will be great at it. I have a working cocker x poodle and he's been great to train so far doing all the ground work. At 11 months, he's been doing simple jumping sequences over very low poles. He started ground work at six months with obedience built up before then. He's been let off lead from day 1 and has much better recall than our other retriever Amber lol.

 

[Dry Rot]

I suppose I always had the super charged rocket type, but I would say one thing. Train the Sit in early so they don't even think about it. Make them Sit before getting their food, before opening a door, before doing anything or allowing them to do anything they like. Train them to stop and Sit when chasing a tennis ball. If you get that instilled into them early and never let a transgression pass without notice, you will get on fine. Their brains seem to work at treble speed so don't think you can't train them to come to a skidding stop when chasing a bolting rabbit at full speed, you can!

An old book and a good one is Carlton's "Spaniels for Sport" republished yonks ago by The Field. Someone once told me that spaniels were created by crossing terriers with setters and then breeding them down in size. I don't really believe that but as a character assessment, it is probably not far from the truth.

 

[PorkChop]

Working strain dogs are only bonkers if they are trained enough imho!

I have eight springers plus one other dog, all indoors, unless I put my whistle around my neck they are generally lying about quietly.

I personally wouldn't get a working strain dog unless I was going to do so, or if I was, I would train it accordingly

 

[Dry Rot]

Working strain dogs are only bonkers if they are trained enough imho!

I have eight springers plus one other dog, all indoors, unless I put my whistle around my neck they are generally lying about quietly.

I personally wouldn't get a working strain dog unless I was going to do so, or if I was, I would train it accordingly

…if the OP has to get a cocker. The opposite to a working cocker is a show cocker?

Probably not the best choice of breed to take to the office but if you are the right sort of person they can be immense fun. Only the OP knows if she is the right sort of person. But DO install the brakes early on or you never will!

"Sent from Hades by The Devil himself with burning coals for eyes to torment mortal man", Keith Erlandson, friend and breeder of Gwibernant working cockers.

 

[PorkChop]

…if the OP has to get a cocker. The opposite to a working cocker is a show cocker?

Yes - I see your point - fair enough

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I know a very lovely breeder (by reputation only, my trainer has one of his dogs) near Luton if you're near by?

 

[twiggy2]

if you are buying a puppy then check the breed lines as some can be very dominant

there are lots of young working cockers and tiny working springers in rescue too

 

[gunnergundog]

…

Probably not the best choice of breed to take to the office but if you are the right sort of person they can be immense fun. Only the OP knows if she is the right sort of person. But DO install the brakes early on or you never will!

"Sent from Hades by The Devil himself with burning coals for eyes to torment mortal man", Keith Erlandson, friend and breeder of Gwibernant working cockers.

If it's your first cocker I would go for one that didn't have too much red ink in its pedigree! Some of the field trial champ lines are a world apart from your decent gamekeeper bred workers. I know you said you wanted to perhaps FT, but even so......unless of course you are looking for a nervous breakdown! There are of course always exceptions, as no doubt someone will come along to point out, but why run the risk?

 

[LovesCobs]

I currently have 2 and have had another. I think they would fit with your set up. I was advised years ago by a gun dog trainer to brain train every day (I have to admit the everyday bit doesn't always happen) they can run all day but a bit if training and they're pooped I have a highly strung one with strong working lines. I got her as a 3 year old from a breeder who recognised she needed more than could be provided at her breeding home. My other two were/are energetic but calm enough to train more easily. I know 2 good licenced breeders in different areas one from working home and pups are docked, one who breeds working type but doesn't dock. Both are licenced and do all health checks. Depends where you are? One is newcastle way, one Staffordshire. I know the Newcastle one won't be having another litter until after October now though.

 

[LBF]

Thank you for all your brilliant replies!
Next door have two show cockers, they are lovely just not 'switched on' enough for me. It would be nice to have a dog that wants to work with/for me for my approval. I've only ever had terrors and although very trainable, they are only interested if there is something in it for them! (Praise itself wont do)

cinnamontoast do they have a website? if so could you PM it to me?

Having looked into it there seems to be so much variation on temperament. I think I will stick to a breeder that uses the word 'pet' as it would be a dog living indoors and predominantly a pet. I was @ a game fair at the w/e and I saw some nice examples there which I made some enquiries about.

 

[Spudlet]

Working strain dogs are only bonkers if they are trained enough imho!

Indeed - but some of them have the predilection to be more bonkers than others! However, they will all need training and stimulation to be happy

We see a lot of them in training, and there are definitely variations in temperament, from the very sensitive to the very driven and everything in between. I guess because they are such versatile dogs, you get people breeding for the serious FT competitors, but then there are also plenty of people who want a nice dog they can take beating a few times a year without scaling the heady heights of competition - and plenty in between.

 

[satinbaze]

If you look on agilitynet there are often cocker litters that are a cross between show and working. I have met a few and they have enough zip and trainability for agility etc without the craziness of some pure working lines

 

[Dry Rot]

An English springer spaniel might be a better choice. They are less hyper and a very popular breed that's easily trained so the nutty ones are not usually bred from. You could still do trials and do beating. Go to a few field trials and speak to the competitors.

 

[Alec Swan]

........ Go to a few field trials and speak to the competitors.

Or, find your nearest FT Secretary, and ask if you can volunteer as a game carrier. You will follow the Judge, and he will pass dead game to you to carry, once he's taken it from the competitor and inspected it for any signs of a hard mouth, in the dog. Behind the Judge, and beside you, will also be the Steward, and if you were to explain your interest, then most stewards would be happy to explain to you the nuances and the ways of how a trial runs.

Regarding the dog itself, as others have said, they come in two separate work types; the hard going dogs which call for experience, and the soft and easily handled. The better results are to be had from the former, but they tend to be dogs which we progress to, rather than start of with, unless you're feeling brave. The other point is that if you have a doge which is too hard, or indeed too soft, then you are stuck with it forever, and most trial people tend to sell on those dogs which wont make the grade.

Cockers, in my experience of them, are or can be, incredibly difficult. As a breed they can be needy in the extreme, they can refuse to share their owner with another dog, they can and will sulk (mostly the ladies of the breed!), and in short and as Dry Rot has quoted from Erlandson, they can be sent to torment the mortal man! 40 years ago the Cockers of then were serious hard work, and it was only the idiots or Erlandson (possibly one of the best Cocker men of his day), who wanted them!

I have 4 Cockers, they're all totally different, they are all in their own ways delightful, and for their own reasons, each is a bit of a challenge! If you're serious about a work bred puppy and you want to work it, then you could start doing a bit of research. If you google Maesydderwen Cockers, you will find a man called Peter Jones. Apart from the remarkable lines of the Wernffrwd bitches, Kathleen, Silk, Ci Twt and Melingoch, all of them Field Trial Champions, Peter has probably had as great an influence over the breeding of the modern cocker as any before him. Peter has also written a very useful book on Cockers, and if you Google his kennel website, and 'phone him, he'll no doubt send you a copy. It's probably one of the best books ever written which focuses on the Working Cocker. For those who are interested, Peter Jones is a most approachable man, and the advice which you will receive, will be as good as there is available.

The younger generation of first class Cocker handlers? 'Phone Will Clulee, he generally knows of litters of pups, and again, he's as good as there is.

There's been a certain quietening of Cockers over the last 30 years, which for the average handler, has been a good thing. Thankfully, those frantic and demented dogs of yesteryear, seem to have died off and not been replaced!

Alec.

 

[lizness]

I have found my working type cocker brilliant, Winston who I got from Cayla on her as a 10wk old rescue pup. He is my first dog but MY OH has had several working sheep dogs.
He is very clever and quick to learn new things, obediant as has to be around livestock. He comes out hacking with me.
However he gets plenty of exercise, he is with OH o farm but not as much at the moment as I'm not riding and quad bike broken and still fine. He loves his creature comforts, a fire and he is happy or under a blanket!
Know a few others with them, two vets so have to work round them and other working people.

 

[druid]

As long as you're consistent with training and give them a job you'll be fine, just don't go us a FtCh x FtCh type as your first dog (and I would get a dog, not a bitch).

I've got a FT bred springer from Irish lines who is as hot and hard gong as they come. Control is always on a knife edge but he's the best worker and trial dog I've ever had. I often have a FtCh x FtCh Cocker in for a friend who is a softer sort but less driven and when I'm out with a gaggle of spaniels I'm often eyeing up the OH's immaculately behaved brace of working labs with envy!

 

[melle]

There's been a certain quietening of Cockers over the last 30 years, which for the average handler, has been a good thing. Thankfully, those frantic and demented dogs of yesteryear, seem to have died off and not been replaced!

Alec.

I am not sure this is entirely true - I seem to have acquired one of these!

 

[Dry Rot]

I am not sure this is entirely true - I seem to have acquired one of these!

If I was to have another cocker, it would have to be one of the demented kind. Nothing more exciting than running a working dog that looks to be out of control -- but isn't! (I may be old, but I ain't dead yet!).

 

[melle]

Mine is only 6months old - she has discovered pigeons on stubble fields! Training proper can start soon!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Honestly, I don't see them as mental. I spent the day with my bil and his springer puppy and the dog needs brain training, as was already mentioned and stimulation/entertaining/training. Our lot can be pests in the evening if they haven't had enough exercise/training, but they're normally fine after a big walk, a new experience, a swim.

 

[Luci07]

Hmm. I know 3, and the latter 2 were purchased due to the good behaviour of the first. All are absolutely lovely dogs but both owners of the latter dogs won't have a worker again as find both dogs impossible to bottom out!

 

[druid]

They're not mental but they do need mental stimulation. Going for a "walk" does nothing to quiet mine down until you reach the 10km hike levels. A decent 20min session of training does far more for both our sanity.

Unlike the Labradors who are content with a normal walk and a kip!