Working from behind/rounding up.....practical advice please

4whitesocks

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OK....horse is very capable, rounds up really nicely for my YO, uses himself very well & has lovely paces (when he tries)....I am relatively novice, have never competed at dressage, am advanced primary riding club but would love to do an ODE (Riding Club) this summer

With me we are at 'almost but not quite' when it comes to his shape - have done a lot of work on my inside leg position & my consistency in my contact (together with lots of transitions, circles, serpentines, leg yielding etc....all of which he's will do quite nicely but I'm just not getting what she gets from him..)
His head will come down slightly but he's not really working through for me - we have had a few eureka moments but not consistently

YO/Instructor asked me to try him in draw reins in my lesson 2 weeks ago - I said ok under supervision....wanted to see what he could/should feel like & 10 - 15 minutes in he really started to use himself really nicely (apart from head position it's so easy to tell when he's working nicely as sitting to his trot becomes enjoyable not painful!)

After that her advice was - "well he's a clever little sod - once he accepts that you are in charge & that he's not going to get out of working (which she has firmly established when she rides him) then he's really working (draw reins not in play)....I think every time you ride you should pop them on at the start even for 10 minutes so he starts to make the connection that you mean business & he has to work properly"

Part of me thinks she's right....this is the only way with Sid as he's just a smart*rse....the other part of me thinks surely if I was a good enough rider I shoudl be able to crack this without them....and to be honest it feels like a bit of a cheat..BUT I do trust her, she's done so much work with the two of us that has really paid off for us...

Thoughts anyone (don't want to start another draw reins debate to be honest - just looking for anyone with similar experiences or practical advice!)
 

katiejaye

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Well I'm not a massive fan of draw reins but I am not judgemental about it and think different things suite different horses. However, Louis is also a clever monkey and know how to avoid coming through behind when he doesn't feel like playing! I would say when you start working try and get him to work as long and low as possible with as much energy as possible to get him stretching over his back and hind and to get him swinging properly. I do this at the beginning of every session and sometimes have to do it for quite a while before Louis starts stepping under behind. I would to start with avoid worrying too much about how "round" he is and instead focuss on first building up his strength over his back and hind. Once he becomes more established and stronger his head carriage will naturally become more consistent.

Try doing loads of transitions and playing around within the paces (lengthening and collecting) to get him stronger and coming through more from behind. Also I always lunge Louis at least once a week in a passoa or degogue to get him really swinging behind and also find pole work very productive for building up strength behind.

Also maybe avoid sitting trot for a little while until you feel he is 100% balanced and consistent.

Hope that helps a little
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Mbronze

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I agree with KJ, the best way to get my horse to start working from behind is many transitions and circles and changes of rein just so that i know she is listening to my leg, once that is established i can then do sitting trot and really use my weight
and leg to get her really working under - works every time - unless she is in a bad mood!! But we all have those kind of days!!
 

Peanot

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Do you work him forwards when you ride him as he has to have impulsion from behind before he will accept a contact and come into an outline. Work him forwards on lots of different size circles as well as down the long sides but keep hold of the energy in the reins. When he learns to carry himself, he will get lighter in front and lighter on the reins. I am just overcoming this with my horse so I know that it works.
My instructor sat on my horse a couple of months ago and she made my horse work forwards and the difference showed in her whole body. She looked lovely. It is easy for us to get easy on them as they are going nicely, but we get complacent and they very gradually get more sneaky and work less, its so slight that we don`t notice. Its like that for me anyway.
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Good luck.
 

Butterbean

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Our big lad Marco went through a similar stage, he is a big chap with a huge head!
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and he didn't see why he had to start carrying himself when he was quite happy to lollop along (although to be fair he has always powered quite well from behind). Our instructor advised using draw reins for a couple of weeks just so he got the idea of what we wanted & they did work really well. Never needed them since.

So don't feel bad about using them - I know what you mean, they do feel like a "cheat" - like with my old pony, sometimes it is useless trying to school him in a snaffle as he will rush off and take the p* while pulling your arms out, but put him in a 3 ring gag & he will work beautifully. I always feel that schooling in anything stronger than a snaffle is a bit of a cheat but it is better for him to work properly than not work at all.
 

4whitesocks

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Thanks folks - appreciate the advice.....I have tried every form of warm up with him, lots of long & low, ever increasing/decreasing circles, lengthening/shortening on sides of the arena etc.....then I started to think it was just me and my position etc must be 'wrong'....had some one-on-one flatwork lessons & instructor reckons I have really improved my position etc and now he's just taking the p*ss!
His back is much stronger than it was 6 months ago when we first came to the yard (he's on full schooling livery so is working 'properly' for YO/Instructor whenever she rides him in the arena (some days hacked out or xcountry etc.) so I think the balance & muscle required is there.....since the introduction of spurs & a much more definite attitude by me 3 months ago he is much more forward & really listening to me - it's just that extra 10% I just can't get out of him!
(rode last night with draw reins and after 10 minutes it's like he says "oh ok then you are in charge it's much easier to work than not" and then he went beautifully for me - the reins hardly came into play at all)

I think i'll continue as I'm going for another week (which will be 3 ridden sessions) and see where we are at that stage...

Thanks again
 

not_with_it

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Well if you are cheating using draw reins then so are all the proffesionals who use them! It doesnt make you any less of a rider, sometimes you just need a little extra help.
 
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