Working in an outline/correctly

IsabelleJ

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OK, this is going to sound like a really stupid question, but here it is. What do you do to get your horse to work correctly? I mean by that, in a nice outline with proper movement from behind and everything? I just want to see how other people describe it, as it hasn't quite 'clicked' for me.

My horse, Sidney, is a 16.2 10 year old Shire/TB who has been doing some competing at Elementary level. I've been riding again for 6 months, having come back after a 12 year absence. So I'm basically just learning to do dressage things from scratch, as as a kid I was more into jumping
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Sidney works beautifully when ridden by someone who knows what they're doing, and I have moments when I can get him to go nicely. We've done a couple of Prelims and a Novice, and got decent marks (57.6% and 58% in Prelims, 50.3% in Novice)and some really nice and positive comments. So I know that he can do it, it's just getting me on the same wavelength as me!

I try and get him to go more forward with my legs. Now he is quite lazy, so I have to get on at him quite a bit. I'm not using spurs yet, although I may well try them soon, but I don't think that that is the main problem. I keep a steady contact with the outside rein, and squeeze my fingers on the inside rein as if I'm opening and closing my fist. This works sometimes to get his head in the right place, but not all the time. My instructor says that I should be firmer with my contact, but I'm quite scared of hurting his mouth (eggbutt single jointed atm, swapping over to a loose ring lozenge ASAP).

I guess I'm just looking for descriptions of how other people get their horses working correctly, to see if there's something I'm missing. I also know that I shouldn't be using my hands to get a 'false' outline without him working properly, but I'm not sure how to tell if he's working properly, and how I should encourage him to go about using his back end more.

I have a wonderful instructor, but I'm posting this as I was wondering if a different way of thinking/saying things would make it all click in my head.

I would really appreciate people's tips on this subject - some of you have a really wonderful way of writing things that makes lightbulbs go off in my head, almost! Thanks!

Isabelle
 
Your instructor is teaching you well but if you get a block then flex your horse to the inside.This will allow your horse to step through without the block of the rein and into the outside rein .Your horse must learn to give to you and when he does he must be shown that is correct by you moving your hand forward but he must give first .
 
I aim at working them as though you're heading up hill so poll as highest point, using their back end to power themselves forward.

Whilst doing this, I include transitions, direct and indirect so that horse is listening to me but more importantly they start to engage their hind legs. All the time keeping an even contact, not overly tight but something that they can work into. When they start to take it forward, I soften and give them a stroke on the neck as a reward then re-take the contact up.

Sprialling in on a circle and then leg yielding out to pick up canter on the track is a good one I also use to get them really thinking about their hind legs. Also means that they can start to round their from hindquarters along their back to the poll (aka the "correct" way as such).

Although I have a contact I don't tend to fiddle, probably due to the fact that I was never taught to do it that way.

If he's a bit dead to the leg and you're confident in your lower leg position then spurs could be an option. It'll help you refine your leg aids and hopefully he'll get going. Lots of transitions will really aid his response time too
 
The way I'm being taught at the min, is to bring whats behind underneath me by using my leg firmly & bringing whats in front back to me by using a small bit of outside rein whilst opening the inside hand to ask her to flex.
 
Oh crikey how long have we got?
I'd recommend Peggotty Henriques book "Dressage for the Young Rider"
http://www.mad4ponies.com/acatalog/dressage_for_the_young_rider.html
It's a really good book which is not basic - but written in plain english - and it sinks in - if that makes sense?

To answer your question - there are numerous ways to make your horse round etc - but he must be supple and when it's right - you will know as everything will feel lighter and effortless - You can either hold a firm contact and push your horse up into that contact (which is how your instructor is teaching you, by the sound of it) However there's also suppling exercises which encourage your horse to engage his hind legs and place his inside hind underneath him which inturn will help round his back and lift the shoulders - working on lateral work will make him rounder but this will make you use your seat and weight aids.

Probably made everything as clear as mud eh?
Kate x
 
Lots of spiralling leg yield, good consistant contact in the outside rein, hands used as a pair, inside leg on, always forward, anything forward is acceptable, anything backwards isn't. Instead of trying to block his head in, try to think of pushing his ears over. Always an allowing contact, forward.

If he isn't going forward, find out why (teeth/saddle/back) if no physical issues, get someone to show you how to demand horse goes forward ei "spencering". They can feel a fly land, absolutely no need to be nagging a horse to go on, and quite possible not helping your position so reducing your effectiveness.

Good luck!
 
i just tend to ride them forwrds and keep an elastic, even contact all the time, ellie rounds up by herself like this and uses her backend proplerly but if shes not playing i do alot of what teapot said. Lots of transitions, leg yeilds lateral stuff and poles. I like poles as i l=thinkit makes them lift if you get me
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they have to step under properly.

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this is how I do it.. at the simplest level, if your horse can already do this with someone else I'd do the following:

1. Get him moving in a circle at walk.
2. Ask a tiny bit with your inside rein to bend his neck inwards slightly so it follows the arc of the circle.
3. Put a tiny bit of pressure on with your inside leg so it encourages your horses inside ribs to wrap themselves around that inside leg.
4. OK, now you're in walk, doing a circle, with your horses body flexed the same way as the circle, and he's relaxed, and walking on nicely with loose shoulders and nice flowing strides.

5. Now stare at your horses head.
6. Pick up a very light contact with your inside rein only.
7. Keep staring at your horses head.
8. When you see that head drop slightly, release that inside rein. (this may take one circle of you staring at your horses head, or it may take 3 circles! You just stare, concentrate and wait for it.)
9. Now, one two or three seconds later (depends on the horse) he'll probably lift his head up again, so pick up that light contact on the inside rein.
10. Stare at your horses head, hold that really light contact with the inside rein and wait.
11. And wait
12. and wait. until maybe half a circle later he dips his head down again for a split second (someone watching you on teh groudn and shouting 'now' at this point is also useful at the beginning)
13. Release that inside rein as a reward.

If you keep doing this, the light inside rein contact is a cue for your horse to drop his head. He'll figure this out because everytime you pick up inside reina little, and then he drops his head, you release the pressure on the inside rein. Even a few 10 min sessions in walk doing this and you'll see a big improvement..... when 80% at walk, then try at trot, same again. When 80% or more in trot, then try in canter.

This is only possible if your horse is soft & flexible all over (sounds like he is).. If you have a horse who doesnt bend on circles, and does motorbike corners, then you'll have to go a few steps further back, and do a spot of lateral work...

There's a quick how to here

http://irishnhsociety.proboards41.com/in...read=1189155540

hope that made some sense
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Umm - Op has said she can't keep the horse forwards, so if she gets him to drop head as suggested, he's not working leg to hand, just with a pretty front - thats not going to get her any good %'s in an elementary.....

Nothing wrong with what you suggest, but he must be FORWARD into her contact.
 
Oops, sorry Linda, I agree
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if horses isnt going forward, you need to sort that out first before thiking of anything further down the road.......

1, why isnt horse going forward...

lots of reasons...

1. diet might need some more energy for current work load
2. rider looking down
3. desentised to leg or partially desentised - does rider always have her leg on? then horse might start to ignore it
4. once horse does move on, riders release of pressure is not fast enough
5. riders seat not in sync with horse
6. horse has learnt to switch off in arena
etc
etc

hard to say without seeing horse & ride in question
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Would agree that everything else (softness, bend, impulsion etc) has to be in place before you can put everythgin together. What I described above was the last step
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[ QUOTE ]
I aim at working them as though you're heading up hill so poll as highest point, using their back end to power themselves forward.

Whilst doing this, I include transitions, direct and indirect so that horse is listening to me but more importantly they start to engage their hind legs. All the time keeping an even contact, not overly tight but something that they can work into. When they start to take it forward, I soften and give them a stroke on the neck as a reward then re-take the contact up.

Sprialling in on a circle and then leg yielding out to pick up canter on the track is a good one I also use to get them really thinking about their hind legs. Also means that they can start to round their from hindquarters along their back to the poll (aka the "correct" way as such).

Although I have a contact I don't tend to fiddle, probably due to the fact that I was never taught to do it that way.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty perfect description of how to do it. Avoid the quick fix temptation of fiddling/squeezing/taking and releasing/pulling or any other bit moving manoevres....instead use a steady, soft, elastic contact.
Also - avoid any temptation to stare at the back of the horse's head - you will start to drop your chin (even if you try not to), will lean forward, put strain on your neck and lower back, and tip your weight onto your horse's forehand which makes it harder for it to work in an outline!
S
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Oh wow, thank you everyone!

That's given me some ideas to try, I definitely want to work on transitions and getting him going forward more. In some ways it's frustrating watching other people ride him better than me, but at the same time it gives me inspiration to get him going nicely!

I think, Elaineh, that part of my problem may be not releasing the pressure quickly enough. I need to make myself more aware of what he is doing so I have quicker responses.

I know I'm lucky to have such a wonderful horse to learn on, and HHO is the BEST when I need to ask for advice. Thanks all!

Isabelle
 
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