Working in an outline, dimbo question

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Bojingles

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Please be gentle with me.

Due to a health hiccup (labyrinthitis; ajnyone tried it? I may have to post in SB about it ;)) I've been unable to ride the comedy cob for the last few weeks. My neighbour, an ex-pro rider, has been helping me out by schooling her. He has the softest hands I've ever seen. Predictably, she goes beautifully for him, even though she is only 5 and has had no schooling before.

When I ask him how he does it, first he laughs and says "I'm paid to make it look this easy" and then says it's all about keeping your leg on.

Now, in theory, I understand that you keep your leg on and ride them into the contact, but in practice, he has the lightest of contacts; almost no contact at all, and she works in a beautiful outline for him.

So my question is, what are the physics/mechanics of this? How does keeping the leg on achieve this? What muscles etc is it working on?

Sorry if this has been covered before; I'm fascinated.
 
PlanetHacking said:
Please be gentle with me.

Due to a health hiccup (labyrinthitis; ajnyone tried it? I may have to post in SB about it ;)) I've been unable to ride the comedy cob for the last few weeks. My neighbour, an ex-pro rider, has been helping me out by schooling her. He has the softest hands I've ever seen. Predictably, she goes beautifully for him, even though she is only 5 and has had no schooling before.

When I ask him how he does it, first he laughs and says "I'm paid to make it look this easy" and then says it's all about keeping your leg on.

Now, in theory, I understand that you keep your leg on and ride them into the contact, but in practice, he has the lightest of contacts; almost no contact at all, and she works in a beautiful outline for him.


So my question is, what are the physics/mechanics of this? How does keeping the leg on achieve this? What muscles etc is it working on?

Sorry if this has been covered before; I'm fascinated.
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Two things come to mind. Firstly, it has long been a BHS 'thing' to teach students to ride the horse into a strong contact with short reins. This is the single biggest bugbear I have with traditional teaching methods. I find it barbaric. Horses are left with painful mouths which soon become numb, nerveless and 'hard' mouths. Thankfully, over the past few years I have seen a change in this view which is reflected by the majority of respondents on this forum. :) The key is to teach the horse self carriage into a light, comfortable contact. However, I disagree with your friend regarding keeping the leg on. Ideally, the horse should require only the odd squeeze to maintain the impulsion. Taken to the ultimate ideal, the horse should maintain the impulsion until asked not to, without the need to nag with the leg or keep the leg on. The leg, however, should remain in contact with the horse's sides.
 
you dont have to have a hard contact for an outline just steady hands so there is a constant and consistant contact on the reins. by having this you then use your seat and your calves to push the horse forward into the bridle and essentially the horse will look for more contact bringing its hocks under itself and working through the back which inturn creates a lovely outline with minimal effort :) well thats what i have always been told and have worked on and it seems to work :)
 
PlanetHacking said:
Yes, but *how* do you do this? :)
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Never, ever give the horse something to pull against. If a horse is being really strong and poking his nose, going against the bit, then rather than just shortening your reins and pulling back do half halts but immediately afterwards release the tension so he doesn't just take hold. You reward the softness by being soft. If he's being 'gobby' then lots of transitions and half halts (always have the leg on with a half halt) usually does the trick. This is all dependent on impeccable timing and addressing problems such as coming above the bit before the horse does it, rather thank afterwards. But it's not something you can learn to do quickly. It can take years with some people. Once it clicks, it is automatic like riding a bike.
 
Thanks for the replies, SM and Wagtail. Oh dear, I'm going to show my ignorance now. I try and have soft hands with her, and if we have an argument, it's rarely with the hands. Out hacking we get along fine (touchwood), we understand each other well, she's responsive to seat and hands, and when she seeks reassurance I give it. We normally end up back home happy and relaxed (I'm a v nervous rider by the way).

But put us in the school and I admit we're a bit of a disaster. She's not strong; more uninterested. She had a surprise foal which we sadly lost and has only been back in work for a couple of months and I'm taking it slowly. She has no topline at all and almost has a ewe-neck. So we generally go around with her nose in the air. She's good with transitions (especially downwards :rolleyes:) and excellent with voice, but she will not work for me the way she does for my neighbour. When I'm properly up and about I'll get some lessons but in the meantime, as I say, the actual physics of it all baffles me.
 
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I really don't think you can "get" or understand this by reading about it, either in a book or on a forum - it's something you are going to need a good instructor and probably a go on a decent schoolmaster to feel for yourself. And it takes YEARS to really know what should be happening. Part of the joy of the never-ending journey that is horsemanship......
 
When you are able to start riding again have a few lessons with the pro get him to ride her and then get on, you will almost certainly feel a difference, keeping that feel may take a while but it really helps to get on after the horse has been warmed up and is working correctly.
 
I'd agree with the above, no matter how much reading you do it isn't a substitute for a good instructor. Ask around for who to get if you don't already know one and I'm sure you'll get some help. :)
 
If you want to learn correct riding theory and more about the contact then make the GNEF's Principles of Riding your bible. It clearly explains the aids including specific hand aids such as the yielding and non yielding hand.

Once you've digested that, then as the others said, you need to learn it by doing, there is no short cut. A good trainer will set the horse up for you to then get back on in order to develop your feel, or regular lessons on schoolmasters helps.

I also do not agree about keeping the leg on all the time whilst riding, it just makes the horse dead to the aids and there's no way you could then teach more advanced lateral work etc later on. Also be aware that a light wishy washy contact might feel nice and the horse may look like its in an outline, but in reality it may be behind the bit and not supple or pushing through sufficiently from behind. It takes a great deal of skill from the rider and a very advanced horse in the highest stages of collection to really carry off a true, light contact.
 
Thanks all, I really appreciate your replies. However, I'm still puzzled.

For argument's sake, let's say that my neighbour is keeping his leg on but she's behind the bit and not really working from behind at all. How could I tell this from watching? How could I tell this from riding? And how would I be able to change it?

Gulp, please don't depress me by saying I'd be hard pushed to learn this. I appreciate the importance of skilled, talented riders and horses, but I don't want to do GP dressage; I just want to ensure that comedy cob and I understand each other. My passion is hacking and I just want us both to be safe. Surely someone can explain to me what's going on physically? It can't be all talent and magic? ;)
 
I'm just getting to grips with this with my horse. Experienced riders can get him into an outline straight away but it takes 20 mins of me warming him up before he works in an outline for me. I really do recommend working with an instructor to be able to understand how it works and get your horse working as you want him to.
 
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