Working in an Outline- Help

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JessPickle

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Hi all! bit of advise needed.

Pickle has always been a lot of hard work, he takes a lot of pushing forward in order to achieve anything, and has always lacked consistency in terms of working in an outline.

Recently though he just refuses straight blank to work properly, I have tried different bits and different ways of riding, I thought perhaps it was due to lack of forward motion and that this could have been due to anaemia (has in the past) however vets saw him and blood tests came back clear and they said he is just being a lazy sod. Everything is regularly checked.

Its absulutely soul destroying and I am running out of ideas!

So any advise on reminding him he can work correctly! he has gone from this

PickleSchooling-June7th7.jpg


PickleSchooling-June7th10.jpg



To This!

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in order for them to work in an outline they need to be supple and soft over their back and hind end and work through their back so i would be looking here. mine started doing this, found he has kissing spines and bone spavins. it was to uncomfortable for him to continue working "properly" its frustrating and i hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
Going to try his other saddle for a week or two and maybe some bareback stuff! and see if there is any difference as a starting point I think. I am inclined to think perhaps something is going on but the more clear checks come back the more confused I am getting.
 
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maybe try sticking him on danilon for a few days see if he works better. makes it abit cheaper rather than jumping in at the deep end. if he works nice and soft on the danilon then you know something needs investigating :-)
 
china said:
in order for them to work in an outline they need to be supple and soft over their back and hind end and work through their back so i would be looking here. mine started doing this, found he has kissing spines and bone spavins. it was to uncomfortable for him to continue working "properly" its frustrating and i hope you get to the bottom of it.
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Am afraid its not good from me either, my TB similar to yours with the working properly and like china's boy my mare has suspected kissing spines, i am having x rays next week to find out for sure.
 
Don't take this the wrong way - but you look like you're riding completely differently in pics 1 and 2 than you do in the third one....in the first and second one, your hands look more relaxed and your heels are down. In the third one, your heels have crept up and you have brought your hands back and they look fixed.......obviously a photo is just a split second in time, but I know that if I change my riding, my horses soon tell me about it! I actually thought it was a different rider in pic 3 when I first looked......I hope you get it sorted and that it's nothing untoward.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Don't take this the wrong way - but you look like you're riding completely differently in pics 1 and 2 than you do in the third one....in the first and second one, your hands look more relaxed and your heels are down. In the third one, your heels have crept up and you have brought your hands back and they look fixed.......obviously a photo is just a split second in time, but I know that if I change my riding, my horses soon tell me about it! I actually thought it was a different rider in pic 3 when I first looked......I hope you get it sorted and that it's nothing untoward.
Click to expand...

Have to agree, you look much tenser in the last pic, like you have become prone to fixing your hand in order to prise his head into an outline. something i have been doing with my youngster is to ask for neck flexion in walk and trot to really get them working in deep, and so you are really riding them into your outside hand to get them really supple, as without them being supple to your leg and hand, you can never expect them to truly work correctly through their back....its really working with my boy as sometimes he can be a bit "fixy" against your hand, and it just gives them something different to think about and stops you getting frustrated and too fixed on "pulling" their head in. hope this helps!
 
I'd agree with the above...I appreciate we can't really see, as a pic is a moment in time as Holly Hocks said, but, you do look tense in the last pic, your knee is forward, your heel isn't down, and your shoulders look very tense. Also, the bit has changed, as you have him in the last pic in a fulmer. I'd stick him right back into the bit you had him in, in the first pics, and relax! x
I'd also get an instructor on the ground to watch, and also get on to feel. More useful than we can be on here with just pics!
 
Tenseness in last pic is due to being at a show I'd say :p he doesn't like the banners round the edge and was trying desperately to not stay straight. However he goes the same at home when I would say I am not tense (do agree tense at shows)

The bit is different yes, he is always ridden between two bits, waterford and full cheek snaffle, as I find varying it stops him leaning as much!

Have now got a lesson booked.
 
Have you tried another rider on him to see if he is just being lazy or whether he is saying 'can't' as opposed to 'won't'?
 
As I said all checked out, had the blood tests as well so tried to cover everything, now just awaiting saddler. He is same with sister who knows him very well.
 
Do you school him often? Could it maybe just be a bit bored of it? My boy isn't a big fan of schooling and I find I get the best work from him if he is schooled no more than once a week at the very most. The rest of the time we hack out.
 
Don't know if this helps but i've had a few 'nose in the air, refuse to work' episodes recently, i found out later that it was simply because a) i was stressed and worried about my exams, therefore i became tense and rather than 'ask' her i 'told' her so she just behaved like a stroppy teen and said no.
b) she was bored of schooling

when i first got her she wasn't schooled very well so instead of an outline she folded her head into her neck i call it 'the broken lamp post' so we got over that by riding bareback and holding the reins by the buckle so that she relaxed and then i could pick up my reins and gently ask for an outline.

to help with laziness i do loads and loads of transitions, to get her to listen to my leg a lot more. also ask her to turn and move off my legs only so that she is more sensitive to them.
Don't know if this helps you :)
Good luck!
 
Apart from usual checks, I have a draught x who sometimes goes like that and does have a bit of arthritis which needs a fair bit of 'oiling' first. I have to lunge, then to do lots and lots of lateral work before we get bendy and swingy enough to do anything considered remotely as work.
 
If you have had everything checked out then I would advise lunging (or schooling) over poles with side reins between his legs. I only school once a week otherwise there does tend to be a fall out between my horse and I and he decides to adopt the 'nose in the air screw you hippy' pose and when that happens there is nothing I can do about it, no point in fighting him because I will always loose!

Otherwise perhaps you could try having some lessons on him to see if it is anything you are doing subconsciously....?
 
A little update :) Vet checks all came back clear, so 2 weeks strictly hacking and not having his feet even touch the school and I have my horse back :)

JessnPix8.jpg
 
Hi,

I got my TB mare 3 weeks ago shes 6 and hasn't done much other than hacking until i got her, thinking a blank canvas to work with :rolleyes: currently shes riden in a loose ring snaffle and im wanting to do some dressage with her after previously being a showjumper until i came off ponies. Shes never worked in any sort of outline to my knowledge having been a friends before and shes been throughly vetted and fitted for her tack so im not worried about any problems i think its a case of lack of good schooling however i am really struggling to get any sort of bend off her round corners/ 20m circles which is one of my main targets to tackle atm because i won't achieve an outline until this is sorted. My instructer said when a horse moves in the field they normally fall in some sort of outline because theyre relaxed and to try and build on that however after watching my horse in the feild on the lunge and with another competent dressage rider on her i can confirm her head is stuck in the air regardless of what shes doing lol. I was also wondering if anyone had also gone from mainly jumping to dressage and any good tips on adapting my riding style as i no that i need to do this but easier said than done.If anyone has any tips on how i can achieve some bend from her and good tips on achieveing an outline i would be grateful as im wanting to start competeing next year and a hollow horse is not going to get far in dressage.

Thanks
 
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