Working livery - first horse

[eggr123]

Hello! Totally new here, but seems an informative site.

I am 40 years young, and been riding a couple of years. I have built up a good relationship with my riding instructor and school, and they have offered to source me a pony/horse on the proviso its kept on working livery at the school. I will pay for the horse,and after an agreed time on w livery, I can move him where I like. It seems like a good start for me (e.g have family and work etc... He would be worked 4 hours per week. I know of two other horses who have been purchased and worked in this way, Both owners are happy. What do you people think? Could it be a good start for me?

x

 

[L&M]

Very sensible as you will have help and support on hand at all times.

Good luck!

 

[be positive]

It is a good idea in theory as the horse will be kept to a routine, have plenty of exercise and you will be helped along the way while you build up experience as an owner, the only proviso I would suggest is that you do not leave them to find a horse without your input although what suits them will more than likely be suitable for a first time owner you do need to like it, be able to ride it before purchase and have a say in whether it suits you, it is important that you want to own the individual not just a horse that is found for you.
As for them keeping it on working livery for a set period of time, make sure it is flexible as things can change, they stand to gain more from it being on working livery than they would if on part livery, they get an all expenses paid horse to use when they want which saves them from having to purchase and keep another one of their own.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I agree with BP. You must try the horse before you buy it, to see if it suits you and don't be afraid to say 'no' if it doesn't suit. I wouldn't just hand them a cheque and see what they turn up with. Also do get the horse vetted.

Also have the WL agreement in black and white, so you understand everything.

 

[JDH01]

Having done this with the first horses i owned I would not recommend this. I really trusted the school owner and had ridden there for ages but found the horses bought were bought not for what my partner and I needed but what the school needed. In the end both horses hated the variety of riders and switched off. Never again

 

[Herts05]

Agree with JDH1. This appears to be a common way for some schools to operate.
I know someone where this happened not once but twice. She was never allowed to develop her independence and learn the basics of horse management. When the relationship went sour she continued to pay for the keep of one of the horses but had been banned from the school!
Remember also that riding school horses rarely hack out alone and this could cause you issues. What happens also if you want to ride/do your own thing on a day when the horse is booked for lessons?
If you really want to buy your own and have the funds then look for a good yard with full livery facilities and a supportive approach where you can bring in your own instructor as a back up. Consider also that as you develop your riding you will probably want to change instructors and introducing new ones can be a problem in riding schools.
With your current proposal it looks like the Riding School are getting a free horse, plus you are paying for its upkeep.

 

[Shay]

Riding schools use this as a way to get horses they would not otherwise be able to buy - and for which they know they will not have to pay vet bills or sort out the inevitable behavioral damage. That is not to say that all riding schools who use this system are universally bad - I am sure that isn't so. But there are issues with this type of system which you tend not to realize when you first start. How many experienced horse owners do you know who choose to keep their horses this way? Probably none. And there is a reason for that.
Riding school horses very quickly learn every evasive trick in the book because of the riders who use them. No blame to either side - just a fact of life. They also go school sour very quickly. Good schools move horses on every 2 - 3 years because of this. Less balanced and sometimes heavy riders on a saddle flocked for you will do damage to the back. Again no reflection on the school - just a fact of life. An no-one will care for your tack in quite the same way you would.
It would not be a system I would choose or recommend. If you do opt for it be very careful that you are going in with your eyes fully open.

 

[Joanne_Stockport]

I agree with all the previous comments.
Before you decide to choose this option, you should find out if they are going to use your horse with beginners or more advance rider (would not recommend putting your horse with beginners). Also what happens if your horse starts being sour ?

As an example my horse comes from the riding school I used to go, when he first started there he was very responsive and everybody liked him. Fast forward a few months (3-4 months) and he would not want to go into the school and was misbehaving. Nobody wanted to ride him anymore so they kept him in the field doing nothing for around 6 months. One of the instructor started some work on him for a couple of weeks (he was better) and he was up for sale.
I bought him in November and sent him for schooling for a few months. Now he is slowly getting good again. There is another person at my yard that purchased a horse from the same riding school that has gone sour. She was told that she needs to get back the the basics (bad habits).

So it depends if you think it is worth the risk of that happening to your horse !

 

[Shutterbug]

I suppose its down to what suits you although as previously mentioned I would ensure that any horse they source is chosen with your input or you could end up with a horse you dont like. Make sure the arrangement is crystal clear and in writing, with an end date on paper. I had this arrangement out of necessity years ago, horse ended up with a sore back as they used a poorly fitting saddle, I would show up to ride to be told he was being used in a lesson and I couldnt ride, and he was over used some days and they put unsuitable riders on him. He also fell over in the school while being used in a lesson by an unsuitable rider - he took off round the school and he went crashing to the ground at the corner when he lost his footing - I was told about it by another livery, not by the yard staff - I was livid. Ended up costing me money in vet fees for his back - would never do it again.

 

[spacie1977]

A similar thing was suggested to me when I was buying my young horse. I found the one I wanted, which she had been exercising occasionally for the owner. He needed a lot more schooling and I hadn't yet decided whether to keep him on part livery at my current riding school or to move him. So she suggested I put him on schooling livery where she worked, saying he'd be schooled for me. In theory it's a good idea. However when weighing up the pros and cons there's no way I could go through with it so arranged to keep him on part livery at my current riding school instead.
Basically you've it to ask yourself how you'd feel if you find his tack or rugs have been damaged, he's had someone totally unsuitable put on him (which will happen because the school at the end of the day isn't going to turn away a paying customer), he becomes dead to the leg, he gets hurt somehow and you're not told the full story, you're told what to do with your own horse and aren't allowed to dictate how he's cared for. Riding schools also often employ young girls who aren't closely supervised by a mature qualified person. If they're not caring for him properly, you may either not realise because you're still learning to care for him yourself, or may have difficulty broaching the subject with the riding school owner. I can see too many potential problems with the idea.

 

[Fides]

Working livery normally means you get a much reduced livery bill - they are expecting you to pay?? I would be quite specific about who I would allow them to ride the horse too - for all the reasons listed above...

I had a friend who had her horse on working livery and he was being worked for 3-4 hours a day and she was only 'allowed' one weekend day... There were occasions when it was her day and she would get there to find him already in a lesson. It was always 'sorry but we were desperate...'

 

[eggr123]

Working livery normally means you get a much reduced livery bill - they are expecting you to pay?? I would be quite specific about who I would allow them to ride the horse too - for all the reasons listed above...

I had a friend who had her horse on working livery and he was being worked for 3-4 hours a day and she was only 'allowed' one weekend day... There were occasions when it was her day and she would get there to find him already in a lesson. It was always 'sorry but we were desperate...'

Well they said I would pay £25.00 per week, he would be mine to move if I wish, and he would work 4 hours per week. The 25 includes all care and feed and stable. The only thing that niggles is that they would choose him, but until they'd schooled him ready to work, I wouldn't be able to try him. My heart is saying "want want want a horse" head is saying "stick with your part loan". Thanks to all who have replied, you guys are so knowledgeable.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The only thing that niggles is that they would choose him, but until they'd schooled him ready to work, I wouldn't be able to try him.

No, I would not be happy with that arrangement.

 

[Shutterbug]

Can I ask
....do they want you to pay for him when he is purchased?

 

[SusieT]

Absoloutely not. They are going to go and buy a young, either unbroken or barely broken horse then school it enough to be ridden in the school. Then they are going to put learning riders on board adn the horse most likely will learn bad habits and become less nice to ride.
Why not say you really appreciate the offer, but you have decided you want your horse to be only yours and would like to look around and see what's on offer and would they accompany you if you see any you like to help you pick a suitable mount?
If they baulk at this then they are not really interested in helping you, only themselves. They are essentially getting a free horse (25/week will cover most of the hay, bedding etc.) that they pick and they are using you to pay for it. No thank you!

 

[be positive]

Well they said I would pay £25.00 per week, he would be mine to move if I wish, and he would work 4 hours per week. The 25 includes all care and feed and stable. The only thing that niggles is that they would choose him, but until they'd schooled him ready to work, I wouldn't be able to try him. My heart is saying "want want want a horse" head is saying "stick with your part loan". Thanks to all who have replied, you guys are so knowledgeable.

They should be providing you with a schoolmaster type not one that requires schooling for work or that you cannot ride until they have educated it, at what cost? if all inclusive of the purchase price then they will be buying a cheap unschooled horse bringing it on then handing it over to you at some point, you would be better off finding a made horse that you can try, it may cost more but at least you know what you are buying from the outset.
If they want to buy and bring on youngsters let them do it with their own money and take the risk like the rest of the producers do, not get someone else to finance their business, if it all goes wrong you stand to lose far more than they do and you have no say in the original purchase, they should be helping you find something suitable and encouraging you to keep it with them not taking over completely and giving you no options.

 

[spacie1977]

Well they said I would pay £25.00 per week, he would be mine to move if I wish, and he would work 4 hours per week. The 25 includes all care and feed and stable. The only thing that niggles is that they would choose him, but until they'd schooled him ready to work, I wouldn't be able to try him. My heart is saying "want want want a horse" head is saying "stick with your part loan". Thanks to all who have replied, you guys are so knowledgeable.

To be honest, I think they're taking advantage of you and your need to have support. The riding school is a business and like all businesses, they're looking at how they can profit most, rather than what's in your best interest. Like Be Positive says, you really need to have a school master which you can choose for yourself. Being told you have to pay for a horse but aren't allowed to ride it is totally unacceptable. And what if you don't like the horse they choose? Horses all have different personalities and you need to be able to bond with yours and really feel that they belong to you. That isn't going to happen if they're being cared for and ridden by so many people.

 

[Tobiano]

No dont do it OP. You need to choose your own horse - yes, have help from experienced people - but what they are suggesting is not acceptable for all the reasons people say.

working livery can be a good solution if you buy a horse BUT you should also be aware that the behaviour of a horse on a yard which is run by professionals and with very experienced horsepeople, can be very different when you take them away from that yard and have to look after them and ride them yourself. ie they may behave impeccably for the professionals but you may struggle in a different environment.

Stick with your part loan and work on a way to get your own in a couple more years when you have double the experience!

 

[eggr123]

No dont do it OP. You need to choose your own horse - yes, have help from experienced people - but what they are suggesting is not acceptable for all the reasons people say.

working livery can be a good solution if you buy a horse BUT you should also be aware that the behaviour of a horse on a yard which is run by professionals and with very experienced horsepeople, can be very different when you take them away from that yard and have to look after them and ride them yourself. ie they may behave impeccably for the professionals but you may struggle in a different environment.

Stick with your part loan and work on a way to get your own in a couple more years when you have double the experience!

Yes, you are right I am going to stick with a part loan, and build up from there Thanks guysx

 

[JDH01]

Glad to hear that eggr123, please don't be persuaded otherwise.

 

[oldie48]

There's a huge difference between schooling livery and working livery, for schooling livery I would expect the horse to be schooled on by a competent rider whereas working livery generally means the horse is used by RS clients in exchange for a much reduced livery cost. Personally I wouldn't want my horse ridden by RS clients as it is likely to learn a lot of evasions and get soured, although I'm more than happy to put a horse on schooling livery with someone I know and respect. My daughter had her first pony on part loan from a riding school. We paid a set sum each month, the pony was used in lessons 1 day and 1 evening each week, daughter had use of it the rest of the time and was able to take it to pony club events etc. It was a brilliant way to start riding as the pony was safe and gave her loads of confidence, it also stopped the pony from getting stale. Would do this, but not what your RS is suggesting.

A similar thing was suggested to me when I was buying my young horse. I found the one I wanted, which she had been exercising occasionally for the owner. He needed a lot more schooling and I hadn't yet decided whether to keep him on part livery at my current riding school or to move him. So she suggested I put him on schooling livery where she worked, saying he'd be schooled for me. In theory it's a good idea. However when weighing up the pros and cons there's no way I could go through with it so arranged to keep him on part livery at my current riding school instead.
Basically you've it to ask yourself how you'd feel if you find his tack or rugs have been damaged, he's had someone totally unsuitable put on him (which will happen because the school at the end of the day isn't going to turn away a paying customer), he becomes dead to the leg, he gets hurt somehow and you're not told the full story, you're told what to do with your own horse and aren't allowed to dictate how he's cared for. Riding schools also often employ young girls who aren't closely supervised by a mature qualified person. If they're not caring for him properly, you may either not realise because you're still learning to care for him yourself, or may have difficulty broaching the subject with the riding school owner. I can see too many potential problems with the idea.

 

[issibizzy]

Im doing something very similar at the moment which is why i clicked on this except mine would be on working livery on sunday, monday, thursday as they have to be able to do 1 weekend and then at least 1 week day and it really works for me as at the moment i loan a pony from the same women doing i do same days as i would with the new 1 this time the only difference is i own the horse not her which is nice because she is very picky about what we do with her horses like pulling manes and tails shaving legs and also lunging and free schooling so this time i can be the picky 1 for instance i hate the way she leaves mud on horses legs to let it dry then to brush it off as they look so uncomfortable so its will be nice to 'TAKE THE REINS' have fun and enjoy it thats all that counts

 

[Cowpony]

My pony is on working livery and it works very well for both of us. She's very forward going so isn't used for novices (she scares them, not by doing anything wrong, just by being forward) and is usually ridden by people my level or better. She loves jumping and gets a lot more jumping than if she was only ridden by me. She thrives on a busy atmosphere and likes being on a lesson with other horses.

My riding school is great - if I want to ride her during lesson times I ask them to put it in the book and there is never an issue. The school puts on lots of competitions so I don't have to go anywhere else, and if I am competing nobody else can use my horse. There's always somebody knowledgeable around to give advice if I want it, and somebody to help if I need an extra pair of hands.

Yes, there are compromises. My tack is used by the school, but I'd rather be sure that it fits than have any old kit put on her. Numnahs, girths and flash straps get "borrowed" occasionally and I spend some time each weekend tracking down various things that have walked, but I always find them. Everything is marked so I know it's mine. Sometimes all the arenas have lessons going on so I have to be sensible about when I choose to ride. The most difficult compromise is when I've got my pony going nicely and the next time I ride her she's gone backwards, but that doesn't happen often and as she's used by the trainees she often gets taught the same things I am doing with her.

Not all riding schools are the same, but mine works fine and there are several of us on working livery. There's a thread on the Tack Room where lots of people have written about their experiences - it's worth looking at that one too as there are more positive experiences as well as the negative.

 

[Cowpony]

Im doing something very similar at the moment which is why i clicked on this except mine would be on working livery on sunday, monday, thursday as they have to be able to do 1 weekend and then at least 1 week day and it really works for me as at the moment i loan a pony from the same women doing i do same days as i would with the new 1 this time the only difference is i own the horse not her which is nice because she is very picky about what we do with her horses like pulling manes and tails shaving legs and also lunging and free schooling so this time i can be the picky 1 for instance i hate the way she leaves mud on horses legs to let it dry then to brush it off as they look so uncomfortable so its will be nice to 'TAKE THE REINS' have fun and enjoy it thats all that counts

Sorry to go off piste a bit here, but the latest research shows that mud fever is a lot worse if you wash the legs. The current advice is to leave the mud on, apply wraps to keep the legs warm and brush the mud off when it's dried.