Working livery

[Firehorse]

Talk to me about working livery please. I don’t just mean opinions, I’d like experiences from people who have actually done it. Good or bad. I am desperate to get away from my current grass livery for several reasons and working livery is my only option at the mo.
My boy loves people and attention so I think he’d be happy. They’d use him 5 hours a week. I hack 3 days a week. I’m sure we’d work it out. They’d need to build him up slowly etc. He’d been on a five star yard, far better than where he is now. Just mulling it over. I need to ask them about insurance etc if something goes wrong while they’re using him.
Compared to the problems we’re experiencing currently, I think this would be a better option.
I must add, it’ll only cost £16 a week more than what I currently pay.

 

[stormox]

It can certainly work - I know people who have done it, the only thing is you do need a contract as to how many hours he would be used, and for what so the riding school dont over use him so he's too tired when you want to ride.

 

[Trouper]

I guess it depends very much on the horse but it would not be for me. The experience of a large horse constantly doing lessons with inexperienced, unbalanced riders on a school surface and not getting regular hacking caused some significant problems - mainly to do with temperament so that is why I say it would not be for me again. There was also an issue of his not being available to me if I ever wanted to do anything out of "his schedule" times.

 

[Cowpony]

I've done it, but not for a long while.
Pros: Your horse gets looked after so you don't have to worry if you can't get there
Your horse gets a lot of exercise, so great for keeping weight off if you have a good doer
You have access to very knowledgeable people. I learned a huge amount
You don't get let down by a sharer suddenly not being able to do their day

Cons: Lots of people of variable abilities riding your horse and undoing the training you've done. It was this that made me change to diy with a sharer
My horse was sometimes double booked, which meant I couldnt ride when I'd booked
It was difficult to compete off-site because we would have been out most of the day. This was especially difficult at weekends, when the riding school was busiest
I used to spend a lot of time looking for stuff that had gone missing and I had to replace stuff that got broken or lost
The riding school used to ask my view, but essentially the horse gets looked after to suit them, not you

 

[Tiddlypom]

Yes, I have done it when I was a skint young adult getting back into horses, and it worked well.

You must have a firm contract as to when they will use him.

Mine was initially used by the riding school for 10 hours a week, then dropped to 5 hrs/week when I stumped up more livery. They used him for one or two hours per day, and if they didn’t use those hours, they lost them, they didn’t bank them for later. He was allowed to be ridden for 3 hours a day in total (their rules for all their horses), so I was able to ride him for one or two hours a days depending on which deal I had him on.

Mondays all horses had the day off (compulsory), then they had use of him for 5 days and for 1 day a week he was all mine.

Like you, all I wanted to do then was hack, and the hacking was good. It would not have been fair if I wanted to school him all the time.

This happened at two very good, well run riding schools.

 

[teapot]

It can and does work, but entirely depends on the centre and its management, which you may need to dig for info for.

 

[C24]

depends on the yard and the horse.

I haven’t personally done it but know many owners who have. One at a riding school, the other at a college with a big range of equestrian programmes from Level 1 right up to university programmes. I wouldn’t personally put my own horse on working livery at a riding school - I’ve seen far too many horses over worked and questionable stable owners/instructors who don’t do enough to lessen the amount of damage an unbalanced rider can do. More bothered about making money and keeping the lessons going than about balance, helping the rider to work the horse over their back, keeping light hands and stopping any “pony club kicking”.
I would consider an equestrian college if it was the right place. I studied at one for 3 years and the horses weren’t like you typical riding school horses - many came in because their owners couldn’t afford them or weren’t able to school them to the level they needed them to be at. Riders would get a good telling off if they weren’t riding lightly and treating horses with respect. Full groom every day, ridden two-three time’s per day (amounting to 2 hours 15 minutes maximum), mucked out once a day and skipped out 3 times a day (including during 9pm checks and feeds). Turn out on weekends, a handful would be hacked out or taken for a blow out around the cross country field. They did have to live in Monday to Friday though which wouldn’t suit all horses. They also used to compete them in shows, showjumping, dressage against other students. They were honestly so well looked after, the horses were so loved and the staff were really on it with ensuring good horse health.

I do think it depends on expectations. I’d rather find an extra few hours work and pay a little bit more or drive further afield, than use working livery at a riding school. But that’s because I’ve heard and seen so many horror stories about horses coming back with bad backs, girthing issues, muscle wastage/unevenness and horses being dead to the leg and bit. It’s hard to know whether it’s one of the bad ones until you’ve already got issues arising.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I would consider an equestrian college if it was the right place.

No, no, and no again to working livery at a modern equestrian college .

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

No, no, and no again to working livery at a modern equestrian college .

Absolutely agree! I'm in close contact with 1 Equestrian college and loose contact with another, there is absolutely no way I would reccomend this at all.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've done it and hated it.

My horse wasn't 'mine' as the RS took control of her, so there was no point in owning her. They basically wanted me to hand over money and then bog off again. Waiting to ride my own horse (following the agreement times) was always inconvenient to them even if I booked her well in advance. Then they didn't want me to hack her so the poor thing would have been used in the school only.

I also wouldn't have my horses at a college - too many horror stories over the years about them on this forum. The lack of turnout would be a major 'no' anyway without the other things.

 

[Rowreach]

No, no, and no again to working livery at a modern equestrian college .

Absolutely agree.

 

[Griffin]

I let mine be ridden three hours a week to help with exercise because I work full-time and she is a very good doer. So technically, I guess she is a working livery. However, she is only ridden by a few very good riders though and mostly for hacking.

I think you have to be very sure of the care and use they will get. I wouldn't want mine to be ridden by just anyone and definitely wouldn't let her anywhere near an equestrian college. The way they treat horse boils my blood.

 

[stormox]

What is the problem with an equestrian college pse guys? I was thinking about lending my mare to one for a term or 2 while I had a bit of a break from horses to do some overseas relative visiting...I thought they were full if knowledgeable people and students who were good riders.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What is the problem with an equestrian college pse guys? I was thinking about lending my mare to one for a term or 2 while I had a bit of a break from horses to do some overseas relative visiting...I thought they were full if knowledgeable people and students who were good riders.

Well the worst post RE loaning to a college was this one.

Loaned mine to a college because I felt that would be the safest kind of loan, he is now dead. Not an experience I ever wish to relive. I won't go into details but my horse was only there for 4 months. Loaning isn't something I would ever do again to a private person or to a college.

This isn't good.

I would never loan to an equine college. I spent 2 years studying at a well known college and the horses were miserable. I actually got so used to horses pulling faces and biting i forgot what looking after a normal horse was like! Most were shut down and depressed and fairly dead in the school as they very rarely did anything else. Quite a few would go lame and they did some odd things to try get them sound. And the minute they looked sound they would be back to lessons twice a day with no gentle build up.

I left a college because I didnt like how the horses were looked after. No turnout, every other one had a stable vice, miserable looking lot. They also over jumped a friends horse, did his tendon. The minute he was better, he was jumping again with them. I don't know why she didn't remove him, but hey ho. Also saw things like stiffness and arthritis issues being treated with box rest?! Thats only one college though, couldn't speak for others.

I sold the most beautiful natured gelding to a girl, and a year later got a call from her mother asking if I wanted to buy him back because he was so aggressive, biting and unhappy. They had sent him to an equine college. I didn't want him back and they sold him on to a private home. During the conversation she said he was fine when back at home for the holidays. I had to beg her not to send the poor little horse back there when term began again!

I'm another who would be wary of loaning to an equine college. I did so with my boy and because he was an amenable chap who just got on with things, he was quickly being used for 3 lessons a day, he became quite depressed and they weren't all that bothered about it, as long as he wasn't dumping riders and was sound they kept using him as much as they liked. He also became bridle lame from riders see sawing on his mouth. Of course all equine colleges are different though.

Do a search and you'll find lots of old threads. Some people have had positive experiences too. I know it's not something I would risk though.

 

[teapot]

What is the problem with an equestrian college pse guys? I was thinking about lending my mare to one for a term or 2 while I had a bit of a break from horses to do some overseas relative visiting...I thought they were full if knowledgeable people and students who were good riders.

Hahahaha, no.

 

[ycbm]

No, no, and no again to working livery at a modern equestrian college .

Absolutely agree. I sold a lovely little horse, and months later had a call from the new owners asking me if I would come over and see what was wrong with him. I visited, saw him at grass and he seemed happy and settled. Asked what was wrong and they said he had become angry and violent when kept at a well respected equestrian college while the daughter was studying there. I just looked at them in disbelief and said 'well he's can't go back there then, can he, you'll just have to sell him! '. They hoped/expected me to buy him back, but I sold him because he was too small for me, so that wasn't happening. He was sold to someone else who loved him and kept him for many years (hopefully life) the last I knew.
.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

What is the problem with an equestrian college pse guys? I was thinking about lending my mare to one for a term or 2 while I had a bit of a break from horses to do some overseas relative visiting...I thought they were full if knowledgeable people and students who were good riders.

I think MC has covered this with the quotes in her posts.
To add, from the 2 colleges I'm familiar with, when they are often turned away for the weekend, they toddle off to fields with others on a Friday afternoon whatever the weather and come back in on a Monday and sometimes fight around the hay piles in deep mud with no shelter. In summer same turnout, no shade or shelter.
Work at least 3 hours daily but also spend up to 2 hours or more tied for grooming or rugging, bandaging etc by different students. Then at least another hour tied whilst 3 or 4 students are mucking out.
Students can be anything from complete beginners, to those who have done enough to ride off lead and very occasionally ones who can pop a jump and know canter lead and diagonals at the start of the 1st term. Last year there were 2 at one intake who could actually ride quite nicely but this is the exception.
This above is just scratching the surface.

 

[McFluff]

I’ve seen it done very well at a riding school. Horses only used 5-6 hours a week, all agreed times, variety of work, fully supervised. All horses lived out and were well cared for. I think if you like the school, have a clear agreement and are there to keep an eye (and act if any issues) then it can work very well.

 

[1523679]

Whilst having a break from owning my own horse, I rode a working livery for weekly lessons for about 18 months. He was used for 5 hours a week and for private lessons only. He had his “regulars” and wasn’t used for one-offs or complete beginners.

My lesson work tended to be driven by whatever his owner’s plans were - we would work on sections of whichever dressage test she was riding at a forthcoming event, or do a bit of jumping if that was what she wanted him to do.

It wouldn’t suit all horses by any means, but it seemed to work well for that one.

 

[sport horse]

Main thing is to have a watertight contract and include a way out in case it does not work as you hope.

 

[WandaMare]

It really does depend on the yard so as long as you either know it very well or get reliable feedback from other liveries which is positive, it could be ok. I wouldn't take the 5* rating as a guarantee on its own. The only time I put a horse on working livery was during a period when i was injured and unable ride. My horse was a cob cross who I struggled to keep weight off even when ridden every day. I felt the alternative for her was EMS / laminitis so I found a lovely small local riding school who only did lessons for 2 hours each day for local people. My horse was used for the first hour and it actually did her the world of good. She loved the attention and being the only skewbald became a firm favourite for the children to groom. I popped in and watched the lessons from the side a couple of times a week to keep a close eye on how things were going and I was really pleased with how they looked after her. I think calm steady horses are going to adapt to it easier than a sensitive horse so it depends on your horse too.

I felt grateful to the staff when I went to pick her up, I really don't know how I would have managed her without them as I wasn't in a position to pay for her to be exercised everyday and probably wouldn't have been able to find someone suitable anyway.

I have also heard stories which are not good but I think the key is to have a detailed plan up front as to how your horse will be used and then pop in frequently to make sure they are sticking with the agreement. Any type of deviation from the plan, oh we just needed him / her for an extra hour as a one-off type rubbish would need to be nipped in the bud straight away.

 

[paddi22]

I had one on working livery years ago and it really seemed to come down to the type of horse it is and if you can trust the riding school. I've seen some riding school totally overuse horses on the sly and work them well beyond agreed hours.

Your horses personality is a big factor. The one I had on working livery was a tricky enough ride so only more experienced riders were on him, which worked out fine. He wasn't bothered by changing riders, whereas most of the ones I have now wouldn't cope at all if they had different people on them all the time. one issue I did find was that he discovered a habit of running out to jumps sharply, which he'd never had before.I wasn't able to compete or ride much at the time so it didn't bother me, but if I'd been doing shows it wouldn't have worked. that was about the only downside of it but on the whole it worked for me at the time because he was a very good doer and cheeky if not worked so it kept him fit and active.

 

[wren123]

I've had private lessons at two stables on working livery horses. Although the horses were well cared for and well schooled I specifically wanted private lunge lessons which I got, but I wouldn't want my horse used for lunge lessons everyday, once it twice a week would be fine. Nor would I want my horse used for loads of jumping. Obviously because of the wear and tear on my horse.

So there are good places out there but find out exactly the level of work your horse will be doing and watch some lessons.

 

[Lammy]

To add to the horror stories of college horse care...I stabled there as a livery (diy) as a stop gap and they had new management in and a new budget to keep costs down.
Me and my friend were leaving one night and realised a horse she used to loan was on the college yard so we nipped in quickly to say hello to her. She had no hay left, this was about 6:30 at night. No late checks were being done so they weren’t getting any more hay until the students were back in at 7am. This was in the winter too so the only turnout was on the weekend. For that night we gave her more hay and spoke to some the students about it who confirmed that the horses were left at 5pm with a small net and they were being fed less hay due to the new budget.

I was so disgusted, these horses were doing 2-3 hours work with no turnout and then not getting enough hay to last them the night. On the nights we had time me and my friend would hay the yard. It was really disgraceful and I’m ashamed to say I actually attended that college as a teenager although it certainly had a higher standard of horse care when I was there.

 

[J&S]

I sent a horse of mine to a college, she was a very well schooled horse, working at Elementary dressage, we had done some long distance and she was fit and well . The reason I needed her to find a new home was that she was very badly traffic shy and and I found it almost impossible to hack safely round the lanes. We had been in the New Forest previously and had had miles of off road hacking. I hoped the enclosed, safe environment of the college would be good for her. Sadly it didn't work out as frankly the students could not ride well enough to make the most of her, they were as described by TFF. I think they were there just to waste a year of their lives! After a while she got a cough and I brought her back. I sold her back to the woman who had bred her shortly after.

A chap from my trec club kept his horse on working livery near Dartmoor, this was a very accommodating little horse and was used by all and sundry with no limits applied. Chap was a novice and didn't realise what was happening until it was nearly too late. Moral: watch like a hawk and make sure the care is up to scratch and work load does no exceed that agreed upon.