Working with an intellegent nervous horse.

[MJG]

Hi,
A couple of months ago I took on a Cob which had been abandoned in my friends field for 2 years. I have had very little experience with horses but it had reached the stage where my friend was going to call in the slaughter van as she could not afford to keep looking after him so I said I would pay the bills.
The problem is I can't catch him and he is in desperate need of vet and farrier care.

I have been going up to the field everyday at the same time with food as well as just hanging around in it to get him used to me. With perseverance I have got him to the point where he will eat out of the bucket while I hold it and will let me touch his face if I move slowly.

I thought I would try to hide a halter in the bucket but the so and so checks before he puts his head in and he just bolted. Next I tried making a loop with a lungeline and putting it round the bucket. He ate from the bucket but as soon as I moved the line he was off again!

I just don't know what else I can try. Any ideas?

 

[Erin]

Clicker training?

 

[be positive]

I would make a small area where you can shut him in, a barn or shelter would be ideal but otherwise if he respects it an electric fenced area, get him to follow you into it, you need to be able to touch him properly before you try and get a rope on, he will be far too quick and strong if you try and rush to get something on him as however hard you try you will have to move quickly which will send him off and set the progress back.
Get him really used to you stroking him, scratching, reward his acceptance of you moving into his space, you need to find what he likes as a reward, it may be food or a scratch in a place he likes, clicker training may be worth trying once he understands the reward is there, take your time most will come round, he has managed so far without his feet being done a few more weeks to gain his trust will be worth it and it could take a long while.

 

[JillA]

Clicker training?

Or at least reinforcement training - use a small treat or a tiny handful of feed to reward him for getting closer, then even closer, allowing a touch with the tip of the lead rope, allowing a rub with the rope, allowing the nose of the headcollar to touch etc etc - reward every time, rather than entice with food. Don't try and jump on him or force him - he will remember, just take it in the tiniest steps you can break it down into.
And try and get him into a more confined paddock or yard area if you can, maybe following another equine?

 

[MJG]

Thank you for your responses. We have tried to put him in a small area but he just ignored the fence and walked through it I don't really want to push him to fast either but the lady my friend rents the field from has demanded he is taken off. Hence rushing after weeks of taking it slow.
He is attached to a mare in the field. I may try using her to guide him

 

[JillA]

http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html#north - not sure if there is anyone close enough to help. Sarah Weston's book "No fear no force" would be worth a read if you can get hold of it, Sarah does brilliant stuff with feral ponies.

 

[Morgan123]

Firstly, well done, it sounds like you're doing a great job, especially given you've got little experience! It does take a lot of time and patience but it will pay off eventually. Hang in there.
You might be interested to read about a lady who was posting recently and in a similar situation with some shetlands who had been mistreated; she is rehabilitating them, and one in particular is incredibly nervous: http://poniesfromhell.blogspot.ie/.

I agree with the others - don't rush to put on the headcollar, but instead break it into much smaller steps to get him more used to you. So, your first goal is to be able to touch him all over (stick to the front end first !) before you think about the headcollar, so keep doing what you're doing and using food rewards, gentle scratching, talking to him, etc. It's a great idea to get the other more confident horse involved, and if you can, I'd make sure the nervous one can see you feeding and grooming the other one as much as possible.

Once you've done this, try just touching the horse but with the headcollar or a rope in your other hand. Aim for a few days of that, not even trying to put the headcollar/rope near the horse. When he's compeltely used to seeing the headcollar, next try putting it on his neck while you're scratching/feeding him, literally for one second the first time. If he moves away, don't worry, let him be - go back one step and just touch him with the rope in your other hand again.

and so on and so on, until the headcollar is near his head and he'll be much calmer with it by this point.

The Natural Animal centre has some great positive reinforcement based courses:http://www.naturalanimalcentre.com/images/2014 NAC Course Schedule (Nov 13)(1).pdf. If you get stuck, you could also try getting a behaviourist (not jsut a trainer - a behaviourist has an actual qualification!) who can come and give you tips. The Natural animal centre has a good list.

good luck and keep us updated!

 

[horsefixer]

Thanks for the redirect to my blog, Morgan 123 I agree with everything you say.MJG you are doing very well if u can already touch his face and getting him into a smaller space is a good idea but you may find that he panics once confined so you may have to leave him alone for a day or 2 until he settles, before you go in there with him. You say you don't have much time but unfortunately time is what you need. You might speed up the process a little if you can deprive him of the company of other horses so that he looks to you for security. This appears to be working for my severely abused Shetland. Perhaps if the owner of the field sees you are making progress they may allow you more time. You can't rush it. And you do not want to be on the end of a lunge rope when he takes off, so don't try that. You may both get injured. I tried to catch hold of my Shetland's headcollar last week and she jerked me off my feet and she is tiny. She also has no respect for electric fencing but she is now in a very small paddock, built of wood, with electric tape running around the inside. She's been there 3 days and hasn't managed to get out, the grass is now pretty well eaten and the other ponies are mostly far away from her so she will, hopefully, soon be looking to me for food and company. It has taken 2 months to get her to this stage. Remember that horses don't think like people. Survival is their driving instinct and if they are frightened, the body overrides the brain. Ideally you need to sit in the paddock with him until he comes to you. And the patience of Job. That said, you may find that he suddenly "puts it all together" and decided you are OK and approaches you when you think you still have weeks of work ahead of you. And when you do decide to chance a rope around his neck (I don't know how you are going to get a headcollar on him, I am fortunate that my Shetland arrived with one) be sure and wear heavy duty gloves and have another person with you. Good Luck and well done for taking on this cob.

 

[tim69er]

I have had the same problem with one of mine.

I got him as a 3 year old and he was scared of everything, himself, life, people, he'd been beaten up a far bit and generally not looked after.. I remember one day him trying to climb out of the roof of the stable.. oh and he was almost 18hh then!

Put yourself in there shoes, understand what and why they would be thinking and behaving the way they are. Talking to them non stop makes a HUGE difference.

Mine is 8 now and took several years of headaches and he still is a total nervous **** at sudden movements, he still panics but he has full trust in me as he know I will not hurt or do anything to ever cause. However in saying that he's been broken and events so I've done something right!

I've done a bit of Monty Roberts 'join up' which helps huge, I still have to do it now when he is in the field and is 'pretending' to be scared of me about being caught.

My advice, be kind, caring, and understanding towards him, in time he will realise and gain trust in you. Watch a few Monty join up VT and understand his (and others) body language and eye contact. The copy!

Personally I wouldn't hide the headcollar in the bucket of food, that's scare tactics, try join up instead...

Good luck!

 

[Morgan123]

Hmm - I don't know, this is just my personal opinion, but as the OP has said she is a novice I am not sure join up is a good idea, since it is so reliant on understanding the nuances in behaviour both on the human and horsey side.

I'm not very keen on join up anyway, especially for nervous horses, so i may be biased - but i would think advising someone who has said they are novice, is a bit risky. Hwoever, each to thier own of course, and differnt things work for different people .

OP - how are you getting on?

 

[horsefixer]

Hmm - I don't know, this is just my personal opinion, but as the OP has said she is a novice I am not sure join up is a good idea, since it is so reliant on understanding the nuances in behaviour both on the human and horsey side.

I'm not very keen on join up anyway, especially for nervous horses, so i may be biased - but i would think advising someone who has said they are novice, is a bit risky. Hwoever, each to thier own of course, and differnt things work for different people .

OP - how are you getting on?

I'd agree wholeheartedly with you about join up. I don't see the point of it at all. There are better methods.

 

[Princess Rosie]

First off, well done for taking on the horse and you are doing really well by the sounds of it already. I'm in N yorks also and have had success with a number of rescues I've taken on and if I can be of any help to you please PM me.

 

[_GG_]

Well done for taking on the horse.

As for advice...honestly...ignore him.

For as long as it takes, ingore him. Do look at him and talk to him as you go about your poo picking and general duties, but don't try and do anything. Just take his feed in, put it down and walk away. The more you back off, the more he will learn to trust that you are not going to try and do anything. The more you try and do things, the more he will learn that he can't trust you.

So, ignore him and keep just doing your own thing. Trust me...it won't take long and he'll be coming to you willingly when he sees you come with the bucket. He'll start pinching the hay off you when it's still in your hands. When that happens, which can be anything from a couple of days to usually a couple of week tops...you can start to introduce your hand, stroke his nose etc. and move on from there. When they have decided they trust you, it all goes fairly quickly. Another thing I would advise with nervous horses is not to be too quiet and careful. If you dust off your coat and it spooks him...don't stop. Carry on doing it like it's nothing to worry about. When you do get to stroking him....be gentle but with a good amount of pressure. Too light with the stroke and you can give the impression that you are cautious, so the horse can mirror that and also, it can be ticklish for them.

Good luck xx

 

[fliffkins]

I agree with GG, I have been in a similar situaition with one of mine, a 16'2" TB X Welsh who must have taken some beatings prior to me getting him at 7. I used to sit in a field with him, give him his feed and then just sit in a chair and read, like GG said, don't be overly cautious with your movements, this worries them more, once i managed to move him to where my other horse was he gradually got better as he saw how i was with the other horse and built up trust, he has never been rushed or forced to do anything, now he is backed and bombproof in traffic and i can catch him straightaway (95% of the time) he is still wary of strangers but has gained a lot of confidence the more work he does.
Like you i had to move him him from the field where he was, i had a month there getting to know him, I have to admit he was sedated with sedalin and still took 2 hours to catch him, but luckily because i had already earned his trust he never ran far from me, and once he was near the box he just walked straight on and allowed me to put a headcollar on, patience and perservance is the key.
Keep us posted and good luck. x

 

[MJG]

Thank you all for the advice!
I have managed to persuade the land owner to give me more time and so I now have till the spring. This has taken a huge amount of pressure off!
I tried Sedalin under a vets instruction but it did not even touch him.
I have gone back to daily visits to the field and basically just hanging about. He now gallops up to the gate when I arrive, bumps and licks my outstretched hand with his mouth and is a lot steadier. He still bolts if I move to fast but now instead of heading off to the other end of the field he only goes a small distance away and comes back quiet quickly.
I am going up to Bishop Burton College as after I asked them for help they have offered to give me a couple of hours training at their stables.
You have all been really helpful and I will keep you informed of mine and Lexi boys progress.

 

[_GG_]

Thank you all for the advice!
I have managed to persuade the land owner to give me more time and so I now have till the spring. This has taken a huge amount of pressure off!
I tried Sedalin under a vets instruction but it did not even touch him.
I have gone back to daily visits to the field and basically just hanging about. He now gallops up to the gate when I arrive, bumps and licks my outstretched hand with his mouth and is a lot steadier. He still bolts if I move to fast but now instead of heading off to the other end of the field he only goes a small distance away and comes back quiet quickly.
I am going up to Bishop Burton College as after I asked them for help they have offered to give me a couple of hours training at their stables.
You have all been really helpful and I will keep you informed of mine and Lexi boys progress.

Keep doing what you're doing...it's already working, so stick with it. When the confidence builds, it builds well so just keep going

Well done and good news about the land xx