Workshy lame horse, WWYD

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Short run down for everyone, 16.1 Luso x TB gelding, 13yo.

2011 - PSD near hind 6 months box/paddock rest managed to get him back up to hacking and even into canter - woo!
2012 - Tenosynovitis off hind 8 weeks box rest (6 at a spa) another long rehabd of walking - managed to do a small combined training january 2013

Now the cruncher....
2013 - Tendonitis near fore. 14 weeks full box rest comprising 6 weeks total rest, 4 weeks in hand walking/long reining (that was fun in the hot summer we had), 4 weeks ridden walk. Vet scanned and trotted up, given all clear, daytime paddock turnout started. One week in, hind shoes removed, two weeks in, physio visit - horse now lame again on near fore, but not pain responsive to tendon squeezing. Horse also not right behind. Physio (into barefooting) has suggested longer heels on the front shoes to give more support as horse is landing toe first and seems reluctant to put full weight on heel.

Referral for acupunture vet approved, hopefully booking in for next week, hoping this will help with rear end problems. Our vet due out to vaccinate next fri, I'm loathe to spend yet more money on additional call outs.

Oh, and I'm 33 weeks pregnant so riding off the cards for next 2-3 months or so anyway.

So WWYD?
1) return to full box rest for a week before vet comes to see if you can unlame the horse
2) Keep on daytime turnout (smaller than arena sized grass paddock) and try remedial shoeing (vet has agreed this could help)
3) Box rest and change shoeing
4) Cry as its just so unfair and I really can't take anymore
5) sell horse for glue/pet food

I'm making lemon drizzle cake with choc chunks this afternoon, so that on offer, although I can't promise it won't be held together with tears. :redface3:

(Sorry for it being so long :( )
 
didnt want to read and run, so big hugs.

honestly-would he go fully BF? i think id be trying that, in conjunction with just turning him away and closing my eyes to him for at least 6 months, if no better after that i would seriously be thinking either retire or PTS.
what a long old slog for little enjoyment and call me a cold hearted B*tch but if the horse wasnt ever going to come right *properly* and i couldnt retire him (not enough money/land/time),well, that would be it, sad as it seems.
 
WWID?

Well I'd pull the shoes, turn him out on the hill and walk him in-hand on surfaces that he was comfortable on every day and try to get him landing heel first. Also check the diet and get a really goof farrier/trimmer. If I had the spare cash, I'd send the horse to Rockley.

CM had hot tendons when she had her shoes off and due to long toes and under-run heels was landing toe first. I was told that the tendon issue was caused by the poor hooves and toe first landing. As the hooves improved, the heat in the tendon went.

If a BF rehab doesn't work, and retirement isn't possible, then PTS is an option.

ETA - I've just seen the link to the DSLD article. DSLD would change the way the legs look. The fetlocks drop on all affected legs (generally all four) and the hocks straighten on the hind legs. OK that wouldn't happen overnight, but as your horse has had trouble for some time, I would expect a visible change by now if that has been the underlying problem during all his lameness issues.
 
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I'd also take his shoes off. Why not rough him off over winter. Enjoy the baby, come back to it once baby is on solids (makes life much easier) and do a barefoot rehab, having fed him suitably all winter in preparation for it, feet should be great.

I'm also going to say I'm not sure about lemon and chocolate together is this a caving :eek:
 
Thanks for the reply, I honestly feel that I can't take any more box rest or rehab work, it literally kills me!

I was going to take his shoes off fully, but with the tendonitis still recovering I didn't want to potentially create more problems (abscesses and anything else he can do to himself) when we still had that hanging over us, it is a possibility still before winter sets in though. We are lucky enough to have our own (very hilly!) land so turning away is an option, he has been reserved the flattest area of our field until next spring as a minimum with solo turnout to try and minimise accidental risk injury (I thought it worth trying different management). And yes, if he's still not right in the spring he will be getting turfed out and ignored for the foreseeable.

But honestly? If I have a baby to look after, after all I've been through as a one horse owner I just cannot face getting another horse with the risk (quite obviously!) that it could just go lame at any point. My thoughts atm are if he is not right in spring, to lose weight and get myself a preferably loaned stocky 13.2 that I can pretend is really for the kid at some point, when in reality it would be for me. I am just so sick with any money I have being spent on vets fees excesses, additional therapies, and ever increasing insurance costs (which reminds me, I need to remove competitions from his cover, not likely anytime soon!)
 
What PS said basically.

Shoes off and long turn away and then get him up yourself and see how he goes or (if your insurance/finances allow) send him to Rockley. I'm not pro or anti shoes but they seem to have a good record with horses with lots of niggles like this?
 
Can you create a track and let him start the rehab himself over the winter. You will be sick of it that's normal, I would be too. Barefoot rehab won't be that hard tho, more like walking a big dog to start with.
 
I think the DSLD has been suggested on here before, which I don't think is right for him as his fetlocks have not dropped, and he still looks normal leg conformation wise, but I will read the whole article when I get the chance. I don't have any recent side on confo shots I can put up (smartphone broken!)

So as for barefoot diet he is currently on hay, with some semi-haylage to make life interesting (its wrapped hay so not as rich as haylage, but sweeter smelling than hay) grass in the daytime - not that rich, infact sadly his paddock is on one of the toilet areas (cleaned!) but he still won't touch the grass on certain bits - and is being fed on grass pellets and SS micronised linseed.

http://www.northerncropdriers.co.uk/product/grazeon-pellets

ETA - we have a 100m long private track that is compressed road scalpings, so there would be an opportunity for me to turnout on there in the winter, at least whilst I'm there mucking out (he would still be brought in at night through winter as his paddock although having a good hedge has no proper shelter and I woudln't feel comfortable leaving him out) . If I spaced hay along the length that should keep him moving. I wouldn't trust him to be left there without supervision, but thankyou that would be a good low maintenance option for half and hour or more a day depending on how long it takes me to muck out with a baby!

PS the lemon and chocolate cake is amazing, green and black recipe the choc chunks sink to the bottom to give a choc crust almost, nom nom (although need to stop eating that if I want a 13.2 lol)
 
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Having managed to scramble my own tendons/ligments in one ankle/foot, I now have remedial shoes myself (3 pairs at £90 a pair). They are fantastic, they have supported the tendons during recovery and they have repaired correctly. I thought they would make my ankle weaker but quite the opposite.

So with this in mind, I would opt for a short initial period of remedial shoeing that allows the foot to gradually take on the required shape whilst the affected areas are being supported and encouraged to adopt the correct position. The aim being to wean off shoes as soon as possible. During this time I would be working towards turnig away completely in a stable herd for up to a year.

As someone else mentioned earlier, I would also be taking a broad look elsewhere for the underlying cause.
 
NB, I'm not a 'barefoot' fanatic, we have a mixture of un/part/shod according to what suits each horse but I do see some atrocious feet as I go around the district.

A few things spring to mind
Is your farrier used to working with vets, doing remedial work? I'd be looking very carefully at his foot shape and checking that the farrier isn't at least part of the cause of all this.

I hate box rest for more than a about a month for something acute, so would avoid that at all costs.
I've had brilliant results with acupuncture, (which vet have you been referred to, if you don't mind me asking?), so probably wouldn't make any decisions until after the consultation.

I think I would turn away until baby is big enough to be a little more independent and left with someone else for a short time. I would take shoes off and make sure that his feet are correctly balanced. If he's putting toe down first there's definitely something wrong in the farriery ime. Our shod horses don't do that.
I think any of us might feel like crying at this stage, even without being pregnant
 
I would suspect longterm underlying issues as he's had repeated lameness probs on different legs.

At 33 weeks pregnant, I'd turn him away, probably with his front shoes still on but hind shoes off, as he is used to shoes and is recovering from injury too. And I'd treat him as pet/retired for the next few months and apart from regular farriery attention and tlc (grooming, feeding, picking out feet), I'd turn my focus onto my pregnancy and baby. Congratulations on that score! Then you have no pressure on you to deal with him one way or the other, and you have no guilt from pts or from not pts. Monitor him and if he goes downhill, then pts. If he improves, then continue with turn-away until you've settled in with your new baby and feel ready to take the reins up again.
 
CPTrayes - I will ask the vet about the possibility of the DSLD, both our vet and the vet coming out to do the acupuncture, its not something that has been mentioned, either this year or in 2011-2012 when he was in and out of the equine hospital (he has bone scans and full body xrays for the PSD diagnosis as nothing was conclusive to start with)

RebelRebel - that is what I am leaning towards, although turnout in a stable herd might be difficult, having been in and out of our herd now for 3 years they can be a bit funny with him - despite the structure otherwise not changing for 3 years, they can be a funny bunch!

PAS - my farrier was good with doing the lateral flares he had behind with the PSD, and is in general I think a good farrier, other than my horse we have had no foot/lameness issues really and we've been having the same guy for 30 years. He must have done a lot of remedial work with other people's horses over that time so I will be asking him tomorrow when he is out to refit a shoe on another - although he won't have time to do mine tomorrow (good enough he's coming out on a saturday at short notice as it is!) Hopefully he might be able to help with a solution and come out next week. The pro barefoot physio did say he had very level, even feet, but that there wasn't enough support (in her opinion!) for the heel. We are using Forest House vets in Harrogate for the acupunture
http://www.fhvets.co.uk/facilities/acupuncture.htm

And yes, crying has been happening pre-pregnancy, for all 3 lamenesses in fact - I just feel like I am giving up atm

Suechoccy - He does enjoy being treated like a pet certainly so that won't be a problem, and yes I think I do need to change my attitude towards him so that I don't feel the stress of 'as soon as I can be back riding post baby I will be' attitude. I will give him a spell of remedial farriery, then maybe take his shoes off (he has a hardstanding area in his paddock so no matter how vile the winter, he can still avoid the filth) so at least maybe I feel he doesn't essentially consume money constantly and I can spend my shoeing money on cute joules baby clothes ;)

My mum bought be some vouchers for lessons at the Pen Lyn stud on their lovely Lusos, so I am determined to do that before I go back to work next spring, at least get some riding in :redface3:
 
cptrayes said:
Check for dsld because of repeated tendon issues in different legs?
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not the only one to suspect this. I posted a link earlier in the thread

It has been said that he doesn't have it because his fetlocks are not dropped. However that would probably only be in extreme cases. I know my horse certainly didn't have dropped fetlocks but still had DSLD!
 
Faracat said:
ETA - I've just seen the link to the DSLD article. DSLD would change the way the legs look. The fetlocks drop on all affected legs (generally all four) and the hocks straighten on the hind legs. OK that wouldn't happen overnight, but as your horse has had trouble for some time, I would expect a visible change by now if that has been the underlying problem during all his lameness issues.
Click to expand...

Stencilface said:
I think the DSLD has been suggested on here before, which I don't think is right for him as his fetlocks have not dropped, and he still looks normal leg conformation wise, but I will read the whole article when I get the chance. I don't have any recent side on confo shots I can put up (smartphone broken!)
Click to expand...

The dropped fetlocks/altered confo and/or stance is just one symptom of DSLD.

I would def get him checked out for it.
 
Oh just to say that with my lad it wasn't mentioned for a very long time either. Despite the fact he was lame on RF & RH. Liverpool insisted on doing surgery on Hind with intention of finding out what was wrong with fore leg after hind had healed
In hindsight they should have scanned foreleg too. If they had then they would have known what was wrong. Especially as he showed very
Slight lameness on left hind too
But then they would not have has the chance to do the surgery as it would not have been the right thing!! I was really quite angry when I realised what had happened
 
Sometimes they go more upright instead of dropping. A friend's horse has it. His other common symptoms are :

Excessive lying down

Sitting like a dog after rolling.

Choosing to stand downhill and with toes downwards into holes.

Fly bites going septic/allergic.

Inability to tolerate standing for a farrier with one foot off the floor for too long.

Very solid feeling in the hind suspensory branches, later followed by mushiness below the knee in the fronts.

It's a nasty disease that lots of vets are still completely unaware of. I hope your horse does not have it, but I do think you need to check it out because soft tissue damage in three different legs is horribly suggestive of it.
 
cptrayes said:
Sometimes they go more upright instead of dropping. A friend's horse has it. His other common symptoms are :

Excessive lying down

Sitting like a dog after rolling.

Choosing to stand downhill and with toes downwards into holes.

Fly bites going septic/allergic.

Inability to tolerate standing for a farrier with one foot off the floor for too long.

Very solid feeling in the hind suspensory branches, later followed by mushiness below the knee in the fronts.

It's a nasty disease that lots of vets are still completely unaware of. I hope your horse does not have it, but I do think you need to check it out because soft tissue damage in three different legs is horribly suggestive of it.
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I know someone with a horse like this. All 4 legs 'gone'. Back legs horrendous - completely straight from stifle downwards, robotic movement and currently unable to trot. Always lying down. Toes always pointing into ground. Ergot almost touching ground even at a stand still on hinds. Puffy huge fetlocks with no definition up the cannon bone. Stands with back legs shuffled under neath himself and then leans back.

Owner oblivious, thinks horse will return to competition. Vet not suggested otherwise. I am 100% certain this horse has DSLD.

Has been turned away, shoes are off. Feet already look better. But this horse has sadly gone way past the point of return.
 
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It's important to not forget that the common conditions are exactly that - common. The rarer ones are rarer. So rule out the common conditions first. It's very easy for owners to become extremely worried looking at the internet getting diagnosises (sp?) via forums where rare conditions will often be put forwards as the possible problem (they could be right, but it can be part guesswork to diagnose without even seeing the actual animal).

Hoof problems are more common than DSLD.

OP, go back to your Vet, get them to look at the horse and talk over the options with them. Hopefully they can put your fears to rest.
 
Another one voting for shoes off, turn out with the herd, get his diet bfoot friendly & forget about him.
If he is sound when baby is a few months old you can try a slow barefoot rehab.
If he is not sound then make decision as to wether he is comfy / happy field ornament or PTS.
Gave 1 of mine a year off 8 years ago with an undiagnosed issue & he is still sound (although a little stiff) at 25.
 
Thanks all

Cptrayes - he honestly has none of those symptoms either, he lies down in his stable most nights (judging by the stable stains) but that's not abnormal, he is an angel for the farrier.

Faracat - thankyou I will have a chat to the vet, again, and see what option he thinks. I will try and get some hoof and confo pics this evening so I can bore you all with those too.

Looking like turnout is the first option, although he will still be in at night for the next week at least.
 
Faracat I completely agree with you to look for common things first, but it is not common at all to have tendon/ligament issues in three different legs, which is what prompted my suggestion. Since he has no other symptoms.s at all, it can be ruled out for now, not least because there isn't a cut and dried test for it.

It worries me a lot that my friends horse has every symptom going and two different veterinary practices have refused to accept that it exists in the UK :( Meanwhile, the horse is back in work and probably in pain :(
 
Stencilface said:
My thoughts atm are if he is not right in spring, to lose weight and get myself a preferably loaned stocky 13.2 that I can pretend is really for the kid at some point, when in reality it would be for me. I am just so sick with any money I have being spent on vets fees excesses, additional therapies, and ever increasing insurance costs (which reminds me, I need to remove competitions from his cover, not likely anytime soon!)
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Ah yes, this option gets my vote. I had an ex-racer who although not really broken, always had niggles (until the last 4 months when he did break a few times through self inflicted injury), I was forking out in the region of £600 a month for a horse that was never really right and I never really enjoyed (turns out I'm not a tb person)

Replaced with a 13.2hh pony and I'm having the time of my life, for under £200 a month!
 
CPT I can see exactly why your interest was piqued - I just hope you are wrong (because hopefully it isn't such a serious problem, rather than I want you to be wrong because I'm a meanie IYSWIM).

SF - I really hope that he can be fixed and that he stays fixed.
 
Dizzle said:
Ah yes, this option gets my vote. I had an ex-racer who although not really broken, always had niggles (until the last 4 months when he did break a few times through self inflicted injury), I was forking out in the region of £600 a month for a horse that was never really right and I never really enjoyed (turns out I'm not a tb person)

Replaced with a 13.2hh pony and I'm having the time of my life, for under £200 a month!
Click to expand...

Well luckily my mum does the sj teams for the local pc, so if there's any ponies going begging next year hopefully I'll be in with a chance. Not put on much baby weight, so here's hoping I can start losing as soon as I've popped ;)
 
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