Worm count result......

Oberon

Oberon

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So I sent my first ever worm count off to Westgate labs yesterday and got the results this afternoon (amazing service :D).

Despite the fact that I took samples from three different piles of poop, there are no eggs seen :confused:.

I last wormed in Feb but surely that's not a normal result?

(there may be a problem with encysted redworm on my yard - what should I do?)
 
Thanks.

I picked up two boxes of Pramox from the vet's today for him as I figured it was the best option for a non sensitive horse.

If worming counts don't show tape or redworm - what's the point?
 
I have often wondered that! My youngster gets wormed with Pramox as he is ok with it but my mare could be laminitic given the wrong situation so she gets one ingredient wormers. I have always understood that the worms that can cause most damage are encrysted reds and tapeworm so I worm for them regardless. Only other route would be a blood test.
 
My mare has always had no eggs seen.
I know it works though because I sent a sample off for a friend too, who had a 'worming plan' horse, and it came back very high.

I worm once a year only, and then use egg counts. Works for us :)
 
no eggs is good. i would repeat every 3 months. The idea is that you either blood test for tapes, which i would do yearly, or worm for tapes, which I would do twice yearly. And you would worm for encysted redworm in spring and that should cover you.
 
Worm counts don't show ENCYSTED red worm (and tapeworm). They do show redworms and roundworms.

We worm for ERW mid winter (after first frost) and in the spring (if it ever arrives) and autumn for tapeworm. We do a worm count in the summer to see how the worming program is going. At a worming seminar I went to this week done by my vets and a person from Equest the summer is the best time of year to get an accurate worm count as they are more active (or something along those lines!). Although they did say to worm count year round 1-2 weeks after a wormer would be "due".
 
I wormed with Equest in the Autumn and recently had a worm count done. One came back with 1200epg (high) and the other came back low. My vet said only to worm the one with the high epg and just tapeworm the low one. So that's what I've done, but I will get them counted again in July and blood tested for tapes when their vaccinations are done.
 
Only if you don't worm at all if you get clear worm counts Oberon :)

If I get a clear count, which I have been doing with one the last year, she gets wormed twice a year with something nasty for tapes and encysted.I keep a written record of the counts and what action I took - so I can rotate the chemicals used to they dont get immune to them.

Tape worm eggs do show up but if theyre not shedding there could still be tapes.
 
Oberon said:
I feel like the stupidest person in the room :p

I had no idea you should blood test for worms :/
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Well I had no idea that horses could manage on the roads without shoes til I came on here either.....how stupid do you think that makes me?
You are only allowed to be the barefoot expert......not a worming one too!!! :)
 
If you had a clear result from a horse that was wormed in February, I wouldn't necessarily be shoving Pramox down it's throat straight away, to be honest. Especially as we had that cold snap in March, it is entirely possible that everything is still dormant and that your horse IS clear of worms. They say that 20% of horses carry 80% of worms so they are not all riddled. Speak to Westgate directly about the "possible encysted redworm problem" - this is their area of expertise and Gill is absolutely lovely. Yes, tapeworms don't show on counting but you can get something like Equitape which will cover that.

The reason worms are becoming resistant is because people are continuing to use wormers when the horses are clear and don't need them. Also get the dosage correct for the size of your horse and don't just whack the lot in! I was on a yard which had a blanket policy and they were all wormed alternately with Equest and Pramox every 3 months. One novice lady hadn't wormed her little 14-hander before so I offered to show her what to do.... pointing out how you set the dosage to weight. Unfortunately between the pair of us, the mare was having none of it and a third pair of hands was brought in, who promptly re-adjusted the tube and squirted the whole tube in! :(
 
Coblover63 said:
If you had a clear result from a horse that was wormed in February, I wouldn't necessarily be shoving Pramox down it's throat straight away, to be honest. Especially as we had that cold snap in March, it is entirely possible that everything is still dormant and that your horse IS clear of worms. They say that 20% of horses carry 80% of worms so they are not all riddled. Speak to Westgate directly about the "possible encysted redworm problem" - this is their area of expertise and Gill is absolutely lovely. Yes, tapeworms don't show on counting but you can get something like Equitape which will cover that.

The reason worms are becoming resistant is because people are continuing to use wormers when the horses are clear and don't need them. Also get the dosage correct for the size of your horse and don't just whack the lot in! I was on a yard which had a blanket policy and they were all wormed alternately with Equest and Pramox every 3 months. One novice lady hadn't wormed her little 14-hander before so I offered to show her what to do.... pointing out how you set the dosage to weight. Unfortunately between the pair of us, the mare was having none of it and a third pair of hands was brought in, who promptly re-adjusted the tube and squirted the whole tube in! :(
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Overdosing isn't an issue, though. Horses don't have a problem with it usually, and worm resisitance is caused by too little in one dose, not too much. The safest thing to do with a horse that might be going to spit some on the floor is just what that person did.
 
Oberon said:
So I sent my first ever worm count off to Westgate labs yesterday and got the results this afternoon (amazing service :D).

Despite the fact that I took samples from three different piles of poop, there are no eggs seen :confused:.

I last wormed in Feb but surely that's not a normal result?

(there may be a problem with encysted redworm on my yard - what should I do?)
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We also get no eggs seen, that is good as normal for us. Westgate a brilliant I trust them entirely
I do tape worm


I do red wrom

Nov and March

I do worm counts


I use http://www.hadrianequine.co.uk/horse-wormers-1-c.asp
 
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Given you can't test for encysted worms - how can they yard know they have a problem with them - genuine question?

I know you can blood test for tapes but given an equitape tube is £7 I'd imagine it's cheaper to treat (not great for resistance I appreciate)

I have no eggs seen counts every 3 months through the year and after the first frost (end Oct/ Nov) I use paramox for tape and encysted worms. I understand that is the best time to catch encysteds/ tapes. This seems to be a good compromise between giving unnecessary chemicals/ resistance and being sure my horses are treated.
 
Im actually about to go out an buy a wormer.
Last wormed Oct-November with Equest. She was wormed last spring with Pramox so I dont want to use that this year.
I was looking at Strongid P but it says to double dose for Tapeworm, Im a bit worried about giving 2 whole tubes of wormer to be honest :S

Would Equimax be a better choice?
 
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Oberon said:
So I sent my first ever worm count off to Westgate labs yesterday and got the results this afternoon (amazing service :D).

Despite the fact that I took samples from three different piles of poop, there are no eggs seen :confused:.

I last wormed in Feb but surely that's not a normal result?

(there may be a problem with encysted redworm on my yard - what should I do?)
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I don't know how you can think there is or isn't an encysted problem. Not by looking anyway. Possibly if they haven't had a suitable wormer for encysted it may be a problem. Did everyone else worm count to get an idea of the worm burden of all the other horses?


Not sure what result you are looking for but if I had wormed in Feb and they found eggs in the worm count I wouldn't be very happy. :)

as far as I see all you need to do now is consider tapeworms and worm count through the summer.

I would never use pramox nor any of the combined wormers. Not because it may or may not make the horse footsoore but because I think it is just not worth any risk of giving 2 chemicals at the same time when it is easy enough to split them and target the correct worm at the correct time.

Have you read all the info pages on the Westgate site? lovely site with lots of info.
 
Speak to Gill at Westgate, she is great at explaining :)

But to start with, the ingredients in E Pramox are active for 3 months in the horse's system, so it would be very worrying to see any eggs after using it that recently.

Encysted are really only an issue if you have a horse with a history of not being wormed, or if you have a horse with a history of moderate or high egg counts on a worm count, because then you know that there have been enough Redworm in the system to have eggs reaching the encysted stage.

You do sometimes see tapeworm eggs in poo samples, if the tapeworm is active when the poo is collected (we've had a positive for tapeworm eggs once). My horse has a history of tapeworm since he came from dealer, so I have had him blood tested a couple of times just to check the wormer is working (I do separate Equitape and then Equest a bit later as the Pramox upsets the gut of one of the horses in the group). The one who's bloodtested gets Equitape twice a year, the others get it once.

If your worming programme is working, you should get regular "no eggs seen" results - we have had them for a long time, and have reduced our worming accordingly.

Recent vet talk I was at the vet had done a lot of research with an active group looking at parasites at Glasgow Vet School, and he was strongly of the opinion that even once a year wormer is having an adverse affect on worm immunity to worming products and we should all be doing less worming, less poo picking and trying to help along the worms who are killed by wormer, instead of killing all of them off and allowing the resistant ones to dominate in pasture. A different way of looking at it, for sure :) So our horses get one Equitape in about November/December, and one Equest in January and worm counted in between. (And they're all bloomin' giants, so they get one and a bit tubes each - think it's hard to get one tube into your horse? You can imagine their faces when I squirt one tube of foul tasting stuff in and then come back with more :D).
 
Adult horses have a strong resistance to round worm which are the ones that are generally found in a worm count anything else you need a blood test for, so I've given up with them.

I worm one of my horses four times a year with a broad spectrum wormer - containing ivermectin & praziquontal - as she and other horses on the property share all the paddocks at different times.

My other horse is done with the same product twice a year as she is grazing alone - on a different property.

That way I get all stages of all the parasites and have a worm free horses. Weather patterns are allowing parasites a far longer breeding cycle so if you are sharing grazing and know you have encysted problems then you need to worm accordingly.
 
Brightbay said:
(And they're all bloomin' giants, so they get one and a bit tubes each - think it's hard to get one tube into your horse? You can imagine their faces when I squirt one tube of foul tasting stuff in and then come back with more :D).
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I know :D. The Tank is 625kg, so even though I only have one horse now, I'm still buying two tubes :mad:

Fortunately, he is a darling to worm and accepts it all without a fuss :).
 
tnavas-ivermectin is now pretty useless as a horse wormed due to resistance, you would be better doing worm counts. under dosng is a much bigger problem than underdosing as under dosing promotes resistance. nic 85-it's not a case of rotating through the wormers as such, but you haven't done for tapeworm in a long while and we're just at the time where encysted redworm is emerging so i would be worming with equest pramox tbh, then a worm count mid summer, and august, and tapeworming again (e. gstrongid p) in late august/winter.
 
If you poo pick and your other field horses are up to date with their worming and you know the history then you should be able to get away with just worming in spring and autumn for tapes and the wormer will kill the other worms anyway because unless you use equest you will double dose for tapes so a pretty strong clean out.
 
SusieT said:
tnavas-ivermectin is now pretty useless as a horse wormed due to resistance, you would be better doing worm counts. under dosng is a much bigger problem than underdosing as under dosing promotes resistance. nic 85-it's not a case of rotating through the wormers as such, but you haven't done for tapeworm in a long while and we're just at the time where encysted redworm is emerging so i would be worming with equest pramox tbh, then a worm count mid summer, and august, and tapeworming again (e. gstrongid p) in late august/winter.
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Ivermectin is certainly not useless here in NZ - who is actually telling you this and where have they done the research to prove it?

A worm count is pretty useless - round worm are only a problem when the horse is really young and only then if people ignore the snotty nose that foals often get - this is usually a sign of round worm migration.

For a better reading it would be more advantageous to have a blood test done as these pick up the most dangerous red and tape worm. In my experience the horses I've had that have bought that have been on poor condition have all had heavy redworm infestations - not roundworm.

Its easy to do your own worm count - it costs a little in the outlay as you need to get a microscope but you could possibly do this together if you are at a big livery centre - the link to the instructions are below - you need to scroll well down the article to find them.

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2013/01/18/doing-a-fecal-egg-count/#.UXL6KkoWAto
 
Nor is it useless in the UK either, in fact it is a very useful product indeed and not much resistance as yet. However, the 'point of worm counts' is that their use leads to far fewer doses being used, slower development of resistance and good monitoring of the effectiveness of doses given.
Both worm counts and some appropriate doses are together, essential elements of a good worm control programme.
If you have worming questions please ask where you can get a knowledgeable reply and if you have used a reputable lab or vet service then that is the best place to go.
 
maybe nz is different to UK. Ivermectin has been used for donkeys years and some worms are thought to be 80% resistant to it.. encysted redworms do not show on blood test-only tapeworms.
 
SusieT said:
maybe nz is different to UK. Ivermectin has been used for donkeys years and some worms are thought to be 80% resistant to it.. encysted redworms do not show on blood test-only tapeworms.
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Ivermectin came into use around 1976 in the UK - it saved the life of my horse, which had been out on lease, not wormed and on overgrazed land.

Riddle time!
How can parasites become resistant to wormers if you worm your worm free horse with a wormer - surely if there are no worms within the horse then the worms can't become resistant!

As I asked earlier - Where are you hearing that the parasites are becoming resistant to ivermec? Where are the research papers where the horse has been the research animal - I've only managed to find ones that deal with mice? Ivomec works quite differently in different species.

I have owned my Clydesdale for 9 years - she came to me at 6 months old straight off the hills and had never been wormed in her short life - she has been wormed only with 'Parade' wormer - Ivomec and Praziquontal. I never fins any worms in her dung. She stays in for two days after worming and is wormed twice a year. She is due this month so will have an extra look. She has been grazed on different properties over the years from not ben grazed by horses for over 20 years to paddocks that have been heavily grazed.
 
SusieT said:
maybe nz is different to UK. Ivermectin has been used for donkeys years and some worms are thought to be 80% resistant to it.. encysted redworms do not show on blood test-only tapeworms.
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I too would love to see some proof and to have another response from Borderreiver on this one because I think it's not true.
 
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