Worming Programme Help

[Spangles]

Hi,
Is there a general worming programme process to follow as I am finding it very, very confusing with advice changing !!
The advice I have been given by a few friends is as follows so just wondering how this compares with other programmes ? Depending on what results are ie +ve or -ve in varying permutations, rotation of wormer active ingredients should be applied to avoid resistence.

Who would be the best company to help with this please? Is Westgate the main trusted company ?

Thanks for any advice or thoughts Please make it as simple as possible - if there is such an explanation ha! ha!

Saliva test twice a year

March - FEC & Tapeworm Test
June - FEC
Sept - FEC & Tapeworm Test
Dec - Only worm with Equest Pramox to target encysted redworms and tapeworm

 

[paddy555]

yes Westgate are a trusted company and there is a lot of info on their web site.

I would do as you for Mar, June and Sept. I would only worm for those months if the count was about around 300 or so. When I had wormed I would do another test after 2 weeks, a resistance test, to make sure the wormer had worked.

End Dec I would worm with equest NOT PRAMOX. Pramox has shown too many problems eg colic.
There would also be no need to worm for tapeworms at the end of Dec. You would already have done them after your Mar or Sept tapeworm test if needed.

 

[Zuzan]

You can get a simple blood test done for encysted now too (from your vet) so you can actually decide whether you need to worm for encysted on evidence. This will help reduce resistence to worming.

Oh and you can also still get praziquantel from your vet (this is the wormer for tape) so you can avoid the use of combined wormers.

 

[criso]

If your tapeworm tests come back positive, then you are going to want to worm then, not wait till December. If they are clear, then you can use Equest instead of Pramox.

Highly recommended Westgate. You can get 4 seasons packs with all the tests for a year or sign up to a subscription service which works out cheaper. They will also advise when you get your results

 

[EmmaC78]

I used to use Westgate but have recently switched to Poopost and was impressed by them too.

 

[Lady Jane]

I use my vet for testing and advice.
I do a saliva test Oct/Nov and worm with Pramox after the first frost anyway for encyted redworms.
FEC spring and Oct/Nov and then worm if vet advises.

We have 3 horses here all on same regime and poo pick daily so have never had to worm (other than Pramox) except when there has been a new horse (not often!)

If you have more horses on your yard your regime sounds sensible except for tapeworm test later, then Pramox.

Our vet is cheaper for tests than the online organisations

 

[blitznbobs]

I've switched to poopost too... quick and cheap - whats not to like!

 

[milliepops]

another poopost customer here, I am FEC-ing a lot this year as have a tricky horse worm-wise and the savings are adding up. That said Westgate were excellent when i used them before and gave very good advice.

Mine are poo picked daily too and closed herds but it doesn't mean you won't have to worm them, some are naturally more susceptible so will pick up a burden even with textbook management.

 

[Jellymoon]

I’m going against the grain here, I don’t do faecal egg counts as mine is a closed herd kept at home and poo picked regularly. I used to do FECs but every single one came back with no worms, so decided to skip the tests and do the three wormings you are advised to not skip. So I do this:
March - Equest Pramox
Sept/Oct - Equest Pramox
Dec - Equest

 

[milliepops]

I think that's overuse of moxidectin tbf. We should all try to use that really sparingly because when the worm population develop resistance to that we are all screwed.

 

[Zuzan]

I’m going against the grain here, I don’t do faecal egg counts as mine is a closed herd kept at home and poo picked regularly. I used to do FECs but every single one came back with no worms, so decided to skip the tests and do the three wormings you are advised to not skip. So I do this:
March - Equest Pramox
Sept/Oct - Equest Pramox
Dec - Equest

I think that's a really good way to get wormer resistence.. There is no excuse nowadays when you can test for all types of worms easily. That's like farmers stuffing their cattle with anti-biotics as a preventative .. really bad practice.

 

[criso]

I think that's overuse of moxidectin tbf. We should all try to use that really sparingly because when the worm population develop resistance to that we are all screwed.

I wonder if part of the problem was Equitape being taken of the market so you can't get Praziquantel as a single ingredient unless you get your vet to prescribe.

 

[milliepops]

I think for most horses there is no need to dose for tape though, testing shows that the old practice of 2x a year is OTT.
If necessary I'd prefer to use it combined with ivermectin rather than dose 3x with equest in the year if there's no need to otherwise. There are a few brands that offer this.

 

[criso]

I tapeworm test and when I had 2 one came back positive no matter what I did and the other always negative. The positive one is 6 monthly alternating Pyrantel and Praziquantel. He does get Pramox but it's his encysted redworm annual dose.

 

[GoldenWillow]

There are worming programmes but all need to be flexible depending on the results of the fec. I have used both my vets and Westgate and have been very happy with their advice as it has been tailored to my horses as I have one who is susceptible so worm count more than is usually stated.

Mine are in a closed herd and poo picked but I would never not fec and use wormers in the way JM stated. Even with a tricky one for the last two years I have used less wormers than that.

 

[milliepops]

I tapeworm test and when I had 2 one came back positive no matter what I did and the other always negative. The positive one is 6 monthly alternating Pyrantel and Praziquantel. He does get Pramox but it's his encysted redworm annual dose.

yeah shows that even with the same management different horses can need totally different approaches. I have 4 horses that are all poo picked daily on what should be effectively pretty clean pasture and the results from their FECs are all totally different, one is requiring regular treatment, 2 hardly ever need anything, the 4th almost never.

 

[Zuzan]

I wonder if part of the problem was Equitape being taken of the market so you can't get Praziquantel as a single ingredient unless you get your vet to prescribe.

You can still get Praziquantel through your vet as part of the cascade system ..

 

[GoldenWillow]

yeah shows that even with the same management different horses can need totally different approaches. I have 4 horses that are all poo picked daily on what should be effectively pretty clean pasture and the results from their FECs are all totally different, one is requiring regular treatment, 2 hardly ever need anything, the 4th almost never.

I have two on same management, one owned for 9 years other for 7. Other than standard worming for encysted one has needed wormed on fec result once in that time with a medium count while the other one used to regularly throw medium/high counts although for the last two or three years has been better giving fewer and only medium fec.

 

[criso]

You can still get Praziquantel through your vet as part of the cascade system ..

That's what I said - you have to get it through your vet which means alot of people who buy from their local feedshop or order online won't bother. It's also more expensive.

 

[criso]

yeah shows that even with the same management different horses can need totally different approaches. I have 4 horses that are all poo picked daily on what should be effectively pretty clean pasture and the results from their FECs are all totally different, one is requiring regular treatment, 2 hardly ever need anything, the 4th almost never.

The tapewormy one always has clear fec worm counts. He's been on livery yards with different approaches but makes no difference.

I did see something about tapeworm which has a more complex lifecycle and dogs being part of that cycle but can't remember the details now.

 

[milliepops]

The tapewormy one always has clear fec worm counts. He's been on livery yards with different approaches but makes no difference.

I did see something about tapeworm which has a more complex lifecycle and dogs being part of that cycle but can't remember the details now.

oh that's interesting, i knew that mites in grassland were part of the life cycle but that's the first I've heard of dogs being anything to do with it!

 

[paddy555]

I’m going against the grain here, I don’t do faecal egg counts as mine is a closed herd kept at home and poo picked regularly. I used to do FECs but every single one came back with no worms, so decided to skip the tests and do the three wormings you are advised to not skip. So I do this:
March - Equest Pramox
Sept/Oct - Equest Pramox
Dec - Equest

equest in Dec I can understand but why on earth would anyone give horses 2 doses of Pramox a year. That is 3 dosings of moxidectin. Overload and resistance. Also the risk of giving Pramox full stop.

I haven't seen any advice anywhere for this sort of worming program, and in fact a lot against dealing with worms this way.
All you need is a tapeworm test then you will only have to worm if needed.

I wonder if part of the problem was Equitape being taken of the market so you can't get Praziquantel as a single ingredient unless you get your vet to prescribe.

yes it took a very cheap and easily available wormer out of reach.

 

[criso]

equest in Dec I can understand but why on earth would anyone give horses 2 doses of Pramox a year. That is 3 dosings of moxidectin. Overload and resistance. Also the risk of giving Pramox full stop.

I haven't seen any advice anywhere for this sort of worming program, and in fact a lot against dealing with worms this way.

Equest recommend quarterly worming alternating Pramox and Equest. I took this from hyoerdrug but the text is from the manufacturer.

 

[milliepops]

you can bet the manufacturer recommend 4x a year... nice money spinner for them! but as we only have equest and 5 day panacur to target encysted small redworm, the way i see it, those drugs should only be used when absolutely necessary in order to minimise the chance of resistance. the advice from folk like Westgate is

Every horse that does not require a moxidectin dose is helping preserve to the chemical and delay resistance.

from https://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/info-zone/seasonal-parasite-control/winter/

therefore i think it's pretty foolhardy to chuck an equest in every 13 weeks just because it's safe to do so. there are numerous other wormers that are effective against the same worms at other times in the lifecycle.

 

[GinaGeo]

I do…

Feb - Saliva Test for Tapeworm
May - FEC
Sep - FEC
Dec - Worm for Encysted Redworm

I don’t poo pick the fields anymore and instead rotate and Harrow. They were all Low (1 horse is and has always been low regardless of worming) or Zero (the other three) when I started this and it hasn’t changed. They are a closed herd.

I haven’t needed to worm in the summer for about 7 years and haven’t needed to worm for Tapeworm since I started testing for it. I might speak to my vet about the blood test for encysted redworm this time.

 

[paddy555]

Equest recommend quarterly worming alternating Pramox and Equest. I took this from hyoerdrug but the text is from the manufacturer.
View attachment 78555

what are your views? does it not worry you giving 4 doses of moxidectin a year may lead to resistance plus the worry of giving 2 doses of pramox a year.

Why would you (ie you personally) not test and worm as required rather than stick unnecessary wormers down them>

 

[criso]

I test and worm accordingly. Last yard didn't have a programme so I used Westgate subscription service but the yard manager used to follow the quarterly thing and didn't approve. She wanted me to do it too but I refused and had 3 vets backing me up. That's why I know about the manufacturer recommendations as she used to quote it and other people on the yard did the same on the basis of this.

Current yard worm counts and I add in the tape test myself. As I said Tigger is always positive for tape no matter what I do and always clear on the fecs So he gets Pramox once a year and double Pyrantel between.

 

[milliepops]

I left a yard that insisted on worming all the horses at once regardless, it's so frustrating that sort of thing prevails. i had FEC'd and Equisal'd mine and they still insisted they had to have a tube of Pramox. Grrrrrr.

(there were other niggles. but that was the straw that broke the camel's back).