Worming Q

[Christmas_Kate]

Now, I have an inkling over what should be done in this situation, but just want to ensure I'm right!!

New horse, from auction, unsure if it's been wormed or not, what do you do?? Give it a 5 day wormer, then continue with a normal proramme or just put it straight onto a normal programme? It looks pretty well cared for, so presume it HAS been wormed.

 

[vicijp]

I would give 3 days of Panacur Guard, then Equest, then Equitape. Spaced out over a week or so.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

see, I always thought you should give it a good boost with a 5 day wormer, then continue in a normal programme along side the other horses on the yard?

 

[vicijp]

The Panacur Guard wont shift absolutely everything, so I use it to help shift some of the burden before zapping the rest with the Equest. Then do for tapeworm with the Equitape. If you wanted to be really thorough you could also do for fluke with Nilzan Gold, if it had been grazing with sheep/cattle.

 

[star]

i would do a 5 day panacur guard, then an equest pramox. panacur will break it in gently in case it hasn't been wormed before, but it's a bit rubbish, esp in certain parts of the country, so would then follow it up with the equest to shift any remained encysted redworms and anything else. the new pramox will treat tapes as well. after that i would go onto the normal worming programme of the yard.

 

[louismacshoe]

I would suggest that a dose of Equest Pramox would be suitable, (unless it is for a mare in foal or lactating). This new wormer does everything including encysted, round, tapeworm and bots.

 

[merlinsquest]

Can you shed some light on a query i have...

I wont bother starting a new thread..... I was told by my vet that I could use Equimax and Equest at 13 week intervals and that would cover everything for the years worming.

I have now seen that Equest has its own version of Equimax (Pramox) and that it can be used again at 13 week intervals with Equest.

Can you tell me if it is still nec to rotate wormers on subsequent years to avoid resistance???

I am sure the vet said no need, and the ad for pramox said that it takes away the need for complicated worming schedules, but not sure if i am reading that the wrong way.

 

[star]

Equest Pramox is not the same as Equimax. Equimax makes false claims about killing every worm and it doesn't - it doesn't have any efficacy against encysted redworms (which you'll find if you read the small print). It really annoys me that they make these false claims as encysted redworms are very important and they simply do not kill them. Equest Pramox is the ONLY product on the market to kill absolutely everything. Equimax is not licensed to be used every 13weeks either - onyl Equest lasts this long. A typical worming programme would be Equest every 13 weeks and Equitape in March and September. Now we have Pramox you can do Pramox in Sep, Equest in Dec, Pramox in Mar and Equest in Jun. That will cover everything. Given that most of the drugs that work now are in the avermectin family (only other one is Strongid-P, coz I dont rate Panacur at all), then rotating wormer groups isn't really possible anymore and it is now thought that not rotating will not increase resistance. The best thing we can all do to reduce resistance is make sure we worm for the correct weight of the horse and reduce the amount of worming we do - my horse gets one dose a year for encysted redworms, bots etc and one for tapeworm - worm count the rest of the time.

 

[merlinsquest]

I thought that the Equest was the one for encysted redworms!!!

Oh please dont tell me that i have been doing it wrong on the advice from my vet!!!

I was using the equest, 13 weeks later the Equimax, and then repeating the equest after 13 weeks, and then the Equimax again 13 weeks later so completing the year.

Could you advise me what poblems i may have encountered by doing this............

I have recently changed yards and merlin was dosed with Pramox last night, the yard owner has said to watch for colic!!! I am worried now that he will be ill and have a bad leg!!

 

[star]

that's what i just said! equest does encysted redworms - equimax does not!

 

[star]

he shouldn't get colic from using pramox - it's no stronger than normal equest and if he has been regularly wormed then he shouldn't have a big burden.

equimax is onyl designed to be used at 8-10week intervals, so leaving it 13weeks after a dose before using equest means in the last 3-5weeks the horse is susceptible to worms again.

 

[merlinsquest]

OMG I so trusted the advice I was given....and having read a couple of posts on other forums I get the impression that the leaflet is none to clear either!!!

He has been wormed regularly, but by the sound of it at incorrect intervals!! However he was being grazed on 10 acres with two other ponies, so would not have needed to eat round droppings.... hope thats in our favour.

I will tell YO that we no longer need to worm every 6 weeks (which is what we have been doing since i moved yards in aug) which should be good news for everyone

Thanks for advice, and reassurance that i wont find him on his back in the morning!!!

 

[star]

every 6 weeks!!!! what on earth is the program? worming programs like that are why we've got resistance - overworming and underdosing.

i doubt your horse will have any problems from not sticking to the dosing intervals, but it is better to stick to them. i haven't wormed my horse more than twice a year for years now and i dont poo-pick. he just grazes on a very large field. his worm counts are always clear. if you're worried, then consider doing a worm count, although they dont count encysted redworms.

 

[merlinsquest]

Not sure what it is as i have refused to be included so far, I read that if you re-worm within the 13 weeks of using equest you spoil the effects somehow??? and i had wormed 2 days before moving with equest. (oh how i hope this is true as i am starting to feel very silly now)!!

There is a chart in the tack room showing a worming prog (looks like its out of a mag) but i didnt take much notice.

 

[merlinsquest]

"I will tell YO that we no longer need to worm every 6 weeks (which is what we have been doing since i moved yards in aug) which should be good news for everyone "

sorry we should have read they!!!!

 

[star]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure what it is as i have refused to be included so far, I read that if you re-worm within the 13 weeks of using equest you spoil the effects somehow??? and i had wormed 2 days before moving with equest. (oh how i hope this is true as i am starting to feel very silly now)!!

[/ QUOTE ]

dunno about spoiling the effects, but it would be pointless - waste of money and extra un-needed chemicals in the horse's body.

 

[merlinsquest]

oh well I know what to do now!!!

ta for help

 

[lilym]

if at all in doubt 5 day guard, then onto normal programme!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

lol, just read through the confusion above. It's a shame these things aren't clearer.

 

[star]

mostly it's the worming manufacturers who confuse people! stick to equest and pramox and you'll be sorted. better still start worm counting. it's not really confusing - just all the manufacturers keep telling everyone their product is best and wonderful and you must use it!

 

[lilym]

i like to 5 day first as due to it being a very mild drug - next to useless in a proper programme - it kills off a few lessening the burden slightly, allowing for another wormer drug i.e equest (moxidectin) or pramox (moxidectin & praziquantal combined) to come along and finish the job properly, this way runs less risk of a blockage due to large burdens of worms all being killed off at once. i have had ponies from the sales over the years and have never had worm problems doing them in this way, before the days of equest i used 5 day, then an eqvalan followed by a double dose of strongid p...never killed one and they all did great and grew on really well!!

 

[star]

[ QUOTE ]
i like to 5 day first as due to it being a very mild drug - next to useless in a proper programme - it kills off a few lessening the burden slightly, allowing for another wormer drug i.e equest (moxidectin) or pramox (moxidectin & praziquantal combined) to come along and finish the job properly, this way runs less risk of a blockage due to large burdens of worms all being killed off at once. i have had ponies from the sales over the years and have never had worm problems doing them in this way, before the days of equest i used 5 day, then an eqvalan followed by a double dose of strongid p...never killed one and they all did great and grew on really well!!

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what i'd do.

 

[Happytohack]

[ QUOTE ]
The best thing we can all do to reduce resistance is make sure we worm for the correct weight of the horse and reduce the amount of worming we do -

[/ QUOTE ]

Also the best thing to do is poo pick fields regularly and make sure all horses on the same grazing are wormed at the same time.

 

[Salcey]

Its been really interesting reading all this. I have always worried that I haven't wormed often enough. I tend to do it twice a year, my main reason has been my Welshie has had colic after being wormed twice in the past. I have never found any worms in their poo, their paddock is never shared and is always poo picked. They also always look very very well.
I'm just about to worm again now and was thinking of using Pramox so after reading the above, I definately will now.

 

[brighteyes]

How about having a worm count done about two or three weeks after worming? Then you'll know if you need to do anything above worm for tapeworm.

 

[star]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best thing we can all do to reduce resistance is make sure we worm for the correct weight of the horse and reduce the amount of worming we do -

[/ QUOTE ]

Also the best thing to do is poo pick fields regularly and make sure all horses on the same grazing are wormed at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup - that too. although if on large enough grazing, poo-picking not so improtant. last yard my horse had 8 acres to himself - would have taken me all day every day to try and find all his poos in that!

 

[amandaco2]

i would do Equest Pramox and have a count done first to check its not relly high(although that wont say how heavy burden on encysted worms he has so he will still need doing)

 

[Gillb]

So much confusion over worming!

Listen to Star and you won't go far wrong though.

A worm count programme is the easiest of all, full details on my website or ring or email for help. We spend our time testing samples and sorting out confused people.