Worming woes

[Esyllt]

Bit of background, bought the lad last year as a companion to my broken (self inflicted!) youngster as I knew I would be moving to our own place at the end of the year. Slotted in with parasite management: regular test and treat if advised, daily poo picking etc. Noticed on his vet history (when I eventually got it) he's had historical episodes of colic that the vet always advised previous owner to test and treat for tapeworm. Unsure it this was done, as nothing noted on his record.

Now we are on our own land (which hasn't had any animals on it for 20+yrs) and I still test and treat, cross graze with sheep, daily poo pick (although with this wet I have been unable to get a barrow/trailer on the fields, so little paddocks rotated between them and the sheep is the best I can do with boot sucking clay). Tapeworm test results yesterday: young girlie is very low, he is moderate/high. Again. Despite them being in the same pasture together, same management, and him being treated as per advice, alternating drug families, he's always at this result. Any ideas where to go from here? I'm starting to wonder about resistance, but am a bit stumped with what to do if it is

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Ask your vets advice..I have a regular near enough zero count mare and a medium to high count mare depending on time of year and the vet changes up the wormer accordingly. The mares run together on same pasture and routine but must have different gut flora and fauna!

 

[Esyllt]

Ask your vets advice..I have a regular near enough zero count mare and a medium to high count mare depending on time of year and the vet changes up the wormer accordingly. The mares run together on same pasture and routine but must have different gut flora and fauna!

Yes, it must me something like that... Wormers are given and changed up per vets advice, just doesn't seem to alter the result for him. Maybe I should add oily herbs etc to their diet and see if that helps gut flora and makes a difference. Just wondered if anybody else had ideas/experience of the same pattern

 

[Melandmary]

Same boat here- pony has colicked due to worms despite me having her nearly 4 years- worm counting, worming and daily poo picking. I ended up joining west gate worm count program and after worming for tapeworm did a retest 12 weeks later and it was still high. She never drops any tapeworm post worming though just red worms whereas my other mare always has a negligible count.

 

[ycbm]

Worm counts can increase with reduced immunity, I think. In older horses with stubborn worm counts, it might be wise to test for Cushings.
.

 

[criso]

Bear in mind the tapeworm test isn't looking for eggs or worms but tests for antibody reaction to a tapeworm burden. So even if you worm and get rid of the tapeworm, the antibodies can still be there and may take a while to go down.

 

[SEL]

I'm having problems with tapeworm on 2/3 horses. The Equisal test should only be done 12+ weeks after worming to avoid a false positive but I'm struggling to know what to do differently. Especially annoying as my little mare had clear Equisal tests until I bought these fields - but I think I'm paying the price for horses on here who were never wormed.

The one who is negative all round is a fatty who could do with a blubber reducing tapeworm load!! No idea why worms don't like her but I can't remember the last time she had a positive FEC and she's never had a positive Equisal

 

[tristars]

i would like to know more about resistance!


i have often seen worms in the poo on the concrete the vet says they are earthworms, not redworms, as i am not a gardener and have never had wormy horses would love to study the life of earthworms [not] and see some good photos of redworms, it appears worms of all types can travel some distance and of course need to get under cover to avoid being eaten be birds

awaiting enlightenment

 

[Pinkvboots]

Several vets I have spoken to don't rate the tapeworm test and say its unreliable and they have seen an increase in tapeworm problems since the test has been in around.

I just worm mine for tapeworm.

 

[tristars]

same here

 

[criso]

Several vets I have spoken to don't rate the tapeworm test and say its unreliable and they have seen an increase in tapeworm problems since the test has been in around.

I just worm mine for tapeworm.

Even if the test was unreliable, how do they suggest that testing would actually increase the incidence of tapeworm?

It works on the same basis as the blood test that vets use and is equally accurate. The only issue as I said that you can get positive tests when the antibodies haven't gone back to normal even if the tapeworm has. The person worms when they didn't need to but given that without testing they would have wormed anyway, there's no additional worming happening.

If there's an increase in issues, much more likely due to wormer resistance which is increasing for all types of worms and not just in horses and issues with grazing due to pressure on land and overstocking.

Or maybe more people didn't realise that they had a tapeworm issue until they started testing so it looks as if there's more around but it's just that we know.

I know my vet was cautious at first but then reviewed the literature and trials and saw it was effective

 

[Melandmary]

Worm counts can increase with reduced immunity, I think. In older horses with stubborn worm counts, it might be wise to test for Cushings.
.

She is 16 , I had her tested for Cushings 2 years ago when she got lami and it was borderline so maybe I should test again. Thankyou I didn’t know that. I just presumed that as she had come from a rescue she hadn,t much history of being wormed.. my other mare when I first wormed her dropped a lot of tapeworms for the first couple of years I had her so was expecting the same with Mary

 

[SEL]

Several vets I have spoken to don't rate the tapeworm test and say its unreliable and they have seen an increase in tapeworm problems since the test has been in around.

I just worm mine for tapeworm.

Several vets I have spoken to don't rate the tapeworm test and say its unreliable and they have seen an increase in tapeworm problems since the test has been in around.

I just worm mine for tapeworm.

The peer review process and science behind it is robust.

If I just wormed then one of mine would be getting unnecessary wormer which all adds to the resistance issue.

In fact I'm annoyed that the tapeworm only drug is now only available off licence.

 

[Pinkvboots]

The peer review process and science behind it is robust.

If I just wormed then one of mine would be getting unnecessary wormer which all adds to the resistance issue.

In fact I'm annoyed that the tapeworm only drug is now only available off licence.

One vet said its often down to how the test is done it's not always done properly so I suppose it makes the test inaccurate.

 

[criso]

One vet said its often down to how the test is done it's not always done properly so I suppose it makes the test inaccurate.

I'm not sure what there is to get wrong. You collect saliva and there's a handy colour gauge where it goes pink when you have enough. Less to go wrong than traditional worm counts where if you just take poo from one nugget, you don't have a representative sample.

It can be difficult if the horse is less than cooperative and it takes longer to get enough but as I said, you know when you have from the colour change.

 

[SEL]

I'm not sure what there is to get wrong. You collect saliva and there's a handy colour gauge where it goes pink when you have enough. Less to go wrong than traditional worm counts where if you just take poo from one nugget, you don't have a representative sample.

It can be difficult if the horse is less than cooperative and it takes longer to get enough but as I said, you know when you have from the colour change.

And they reject any without sufficient sample - at your own cost so pays to check!!

 

[Esyllt]

I test every 6 months (sept and march) to make sure I'm not over using, and rotate drug families. His count never seems to change much, despite my management. However, he had colic a few times due to inadequate parasite control before I got him, "my" summer paddock at livery had horses on it in-between my mare coming off and going back on (with the lad) in the summer, and I don't know if the horses were wormed. It wasn't poo picked that was for sure! Both had an issue then, but she has come back clear. Good to know I can retest in 12 weeks, I thought I'd have to wait for the 6 months mark due to life cycle and antibodies etc. My grand plans for cross grazing rotations has gone to pot with this horrible weather, and trying to just get them out, with whatever patch isn't quickbog, so I know that isn't on my side right now. Also wondering if gut biome is something to look into, he presented as uncomfortable (bloated, loads rumbling tummy) when he arrived (he has a high stress back story with pain and bute ++ before coming to me), so I'm guessing it's not the best and maybe could be a factor? It's improving slowly, but after reading the oily herbs threads, it's given me some food for thought

 

[SEL]

I test every 6 months (sept and march) to make sure I'm not over using, and rotate drug families. His count never seems to change much, despite my management. However, he had colic a few times due to inadequate parasite control before I got him, "my" summer paddock at livery had horses on it in-between my mare coming off and going back on (with the lad) in the summer, and I don't know if the horses were wormed. It wasn't poo picked that was for sure! Both had an issue then, but she has come back clear. Good to know I can retest in 12 weeks, I thought I'd have to wait for the 6 months mark due to life cycle and antibodies etc. My grand plans for cross grazing rotations has gone to pot with this horrible weather, and trying to just get them out, with whatever patch isn't quickbog, so I know that isn't on my side right now. Also wondering if gut biome is something to look into, he presented as uncomfortable (bloated, loads rumbling tummy) when he arrived (he has a high stress back story with pain and bute ++ before coming to me), so I'm guessing it's not the best and maybe could be a factor? It's improving slowly, but after reading the oily herbs threads, it's given me some food for thought

My one who has never been positive was the horse I did the Equibiome test on in 2018 so she's had a tonne of herbal gut support. I use herbal wormer with her between tests too - no idea if it helps.

 

[Borderreiver]

Several vets I have spoken to don't rate the tapeworm test and say its unreliable and they have seen an increase in tapeworm problems since the test has been in around.

I just worm mine for tapeworm.

It’s sad that these old fashioned vets are still not on board with Equisal. The science is very robust and peer reviewed. I’ve been to the lab, met the scientists who are passionate about horse health above all. Another extremely well regarded parasitologist from the Moredun institute also works at Equisal nowadays further adding to the quality of the work. Vets are somewhat protective of their own profession sadly. Which drug will they recommend when there is resistance to both the available ones from overuse?