Worried about George's Weight - help

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Gorgeous George

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I am a bit worried about George’s weight as he really is looking rather fat
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. I noticed last weekend when OH took some pics of us and I could see a gutter down George’s back, it’s not there when he’s standing square mind you. He doesn’t have a crest, or fatty deposits (except just above his tail) and I can feel his ribs but only just
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Not sure what to do to help him shed some excess weight, as he doesn’t really lose much over the winter either! George is a 16.3 shire TB x and comes up as 576kg on the weigh tape, he goes out in the field for 10hrs a day with a shires type grazing muzzle on which he never gets off. He has 3 sections of soaked hay per night and 2 feeds a day, each feed is 1 scoop of hi-fi lite and 1 mug of lo-cal balancer. I can’t see that I can cut his feed down much more as I don’t want him standing for hours without feed, although I could reduce his hi-fi to just a handful. Also, should I cut out his apples and carrots (he has 1 apple and 2 carrots a day)?

I work full time in London, so exercising time is at a premium, but I think making him work a bit harder may be the answer (he leads a pretty cushy life at the moment
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). At present he has 1 day off a week, the rest of the time I can ride for about 40mins (although longer at weekends). If I am in the school, I do a bit of walk, trot and canter, but I tend to trot some circles and then let him walk for a bit, then do a bit more and the same in canter – so I am thinking I really need to keep him trotting / cantering for longer to burn more calories? Also, what can I do when I’m hacking? The ground is so hard at the moment that even trotting is a limited activity.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions I would be very grateful
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(don’t tell George though, he will get very upset if he finds out he will have to work harder for less food
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!)
 
I would cut out both feeds but up the hay overnight, so hoepfully he will be eating for longer and 'standing around doing nothing' for less time. Also how long do you soak the hay for?
Do you have any hills for hacking where you are? Even walking up hills is a great way to loose weight.
 
If he doesn't have the gutter when standing square, no crest or fat pad to speak of I think you're doing a pretty good job already!

His feed sound perfect, to be honest you could properbably give him more of the HiFi light as him being hungry will only make his body want to store more
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it's a nightmare!

You could try and up his work load, maybe lunge for 10 minutes before you ride as that's hard work for him but you'll still be fit to ask for all you want when you get on board?

The problem with August is that the grass can still really grow for a few weeks, in saying that we are nearing the end of the grass season so if you keep him on his current diet for a month or 2 I reckon the weight will come off.

As for losing weight during the winter, don't put on super heavy rugs and try to give him hay in nets that make him really try before he gets anything (maybe doubleup a haylage net which was what I resorted to with my greedy Highland!)
 
I would also say cut out both feeds and when you hack make sure he is on the contact and working from behind the whole time this will work wonders.

Soak the hay for as long as possible to remove the goodness.
 
no carrots or apples, he will still love you.

I have always found with Frank that work is the only answer and prefer this to restricitng intake unless absolutely necessary to. (he is out on short grass 24/7 atm)

definitely keep him trotting or cantering more. Frank will do say an hour schooling session and for all of that will prob walk for 15 mins (warm up/cool down couple of short breathers to stretch in the middle) the rest is all trot or canter.

On hacks we have a good 1/3 mile canter stretch which he goes up and down normally 3 times (so he does a good mile or 2) in trot and canter with short breathers at the ends, If I'm honest I don't worry about the ground, he is 16 and I have never had a problem (he got one small splint 4 years ago but I can't find it now!) we don't have an arena so have no choice, his weight and fitness are more important. The only thing I don't do is gallop or let them race on the hard ground.

Part of the reason for the work I do is his weight but also I cannot expect him to compete if he is not fit as he is the sort that needs to be fit to manage it.

Jumping, jumping really helps, partly as frank gets a bit more excited by it so is willing to burn off more calories.

unfortunately we are on the somerset levels so no hills.

do you lunge him at all?
 
It sounds like he's in pretty light work if he were mine I'd knock one of the hard feeds off and give him one minimal feed a day.

I had a interesting conversation with our vet the other day about a pony on our yard with lami, the thing she said thats stuck in my head is horses are designed to eat grass, over feeding can be as bad for them if not worse as underfeeding them. Stick to the original design, sometimes I think we're brainwashed by the feed companies into feeding all singing and dancing concentrates balancers and supplements our horses just don't need.
 
I agree - loose the feeds for a while - the hay will be enough for him. I would also agree with upping the excercise - you don't have to increase the time spent riding more the energy used whilst riding. I have the same with the BGL (Big Grey Lump) who lives on fresh air
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. Try to work up to spending 30 minutes of your 40 in trot/canter - when you are walking make sure he is marching out not tootling around!! Same on a hack make him walk out even if all you can do is walk.

I feel your pain - especially when you are a hot sticky mess on top of said beastie and appear to do more work than them!! On the brightside you get fitter too...............
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oh just another thought re rugs- I don't until I need to, an quite happy for him to burn a few calories in the rain or if it gets cold. But he does spend the winter clipped as he gets very fluffy but I don't super rug.
 
I would cut one of his feeds out and give him two slices of hay soaked in two/three small holed haynets, one inside the other to make it more difficult to get out. I would also up his trot and canter work and do less walking in the school. If you have a starvation paddock at the yard or one that has little or no grass in it try and get him put in there during the day. The grass will continue to grow for another couple of months at least depending on the weather.
 
My last boy weighted about 575 on a weight tape and on a weigh bridge....645kg but was not over weight. Have always been taught that around 14HH+ is 400kg 15hh 500kg 16hh+ 600kg and to add/minus 50kg if the horse is lightweight or heavyweight. So....and am not an expert but in my experience , if your tape is similar to mine and your boy is a Shire cross, he doesn't sound too overweight. Is obviously difficult to judge because you need to see the horse but wouldn't panic. You know him better than anyone and if you have noticed an increase then increase work and/or reduce feed intake accordingly. You could cut the Hi fi down and soaking the hay for longer will reduce the nutritional content so maybe something you want to consider. If you can increase his faster work then that would be good, can you get him to a beach or maybe somewhere where the ground is better for cantering etc? We have some wooded areas where the ground is fine for a canter and some with excellent grass coverage but some of the fields are cracked and like concrete so it's a case of hunting down the good places. Doing some faster work on the lunge may help and jumping in the school or even jumping him on the lunge (using blocks not wings or even just poles). Hope some of this helps and good luck

To add, cutting out all feed won't do him any harm, my boy is on one feed of high fibre food a day and only about half a kg....he is in medium/hard work and looks well on it, sounds like you have a good doer too!
 
I would also say lose the feeds, and cut down on apples and carrots. If you must give him a treat, then maybe give his a half carrot if he's been good when ridden
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I would also increase his exercise, or the amount of work he does within the 40 minutes.
 
The best thing to do is to put a couple of very recent pics up. I constantly worry that mine is too fat so I take pics fairly regularly to monitor his weight as you can't be objective when you see them every day.

If he was mine, I would cut the feed out all together, he doesn't need it. My horse would be massive if I let him be and he gets a handful of chaff with a handful of high fibre nuts to have his joint supp (has to have the supplement, vet makes me feed it!).

How long do you soak your hay for? I soak for min. 12 hours then rinse off when I tip the water away.

Does your yard have a horse walker? My boy goes on at least twice a week, for an hour a time, as that helps keep the weight off. I also ride on those days, so it double the work he does. Personally, if I was you, I'd start upping the intensity of his work. The best thing is lots of hacking to keep weight off but obviously if you're in London during the day then it isn't feasible to come home and hack for 2 hours every day. Make your schooling sessions harder, more canter work, more trot work, do poles, lots of transistions. Get him working hard. Start having some faster hacks if you can - find places for lots of canters. Generally the more work the better, though within reason as the last thing you want to end up with is a superfit and silly horse!
 
I spoke to a lady called Jackie J A Taylor at The Metabolic Horse about a friend's horse a while back. Her advice was that sometimes you don't need to cut out the feed, but review what you give. She recommended that this horse, that had been spending a lot of time in a starvation paddock and having no hard feed, be given... Top Spec Anti-Lam and chaff, but I think the chaff was Alpha Oil because it has almost no sugar. Mine get just one mug of balancer a day, and a scoop of Alpha A, and because our pastures tend to be poor in vits and mins I never cut out the balancer.
I would give no carrot at all, as carrots are high in sugar, and a little bit of apple maybe once a week as a treat. I would not lose the hard feeds. I would feed soaked hay, but not ration the hay severely because horses need constant fibre through their gut. And as you say, maybe up the exercise.
 
My horse sounds very similar but is out about 8 hrs max a day, when I ride (5 times a week) then its 6 hrs max. Hes 16.2 ID x TB x Shire and gets 2 small feeds of hifi and half a scoop of hifi cubes between 2 feeds with a small net at night, haylage though as thats all thats fed on the yard. He has always had a gutter down his back, even when slimmer, I have a pic of him as a yearling when he was lean and he had it then.
I was interested to read about feeding balancers as I was feeding Top Spec antilami with hifi but my feed merchant said I was wasting my money as he reckoned it only worked if fed with straights???? He said I should feed HiFi and HiFibre cubes instead as my horse was a bit porky so I thought I would give it a go.
 
Hovis and omar have had their breakfast stopped all summer.
They have grazing all day and then two haynets each at night plus a small tea. No carrots until winter unless its a treat or the ones for us are turning a bit manky.
Hovis is 16.2HH and weighs in at 569kg which according to the vet is light for his breed. I strive hard to keep him on the lean side though so that he's not being too hard on his joints.
Omar is 17.2HH and off the weigh tape. The vets view is for his height and build is he's about right as he is built like a brick outhouse but is pure muscle. No fat deposits anywhere.

If george were mine i think i'd cut at least one meal out, cut out the carrots etc and up the amount he's working in the 40 mins you ride him. He looks well though so i wouldn't be worrying too much. I think he's lovely.
 
I think he could easily work a bit harder but I don't think 576kg is a lot for a horse of his size and by the sounds of his condition score he's about perfect! It sounds like you're already doing a great job with him!
You could try cutting his feed but as you say he's not really getting much in the way of calories.
My lad is 16.2hh ID X WB and weighs almost 650kg on tape but he has no gutter on his bum & you can feel his ribs easily etc. He has a scoop of lo cal on the days he schools and when we've just hacked he has some of those new Dodson & Horrell Equibites which are really good so perhaps you could try those?
 
I think it's not necessarily a bad thing for them to be carrying a LITTLE BIT of weight at this time of year with winter on its way. He certainly doesn't sound obese and I'm sure he'll lose it when it starts getting a bit colder. Maybe cut the feed down to one a day and increase the intensity of his work if you can't increase the amount. My instructor always says that if you are working them to lose weight you should always work them up into a good sweat no matter what you're doing.
 
He doesnt really sound bad tbh. Id maybe do like some of the others have said, cut out the hard feed unless hes lacking in energy. At the very least, do cut back to just a handful of Hi-fi lite.
If you cant increase the duration of exercise, then increasing the intensity will work (infact its probably the best idea anyway). We have just brought in a lot of the NH racehorses from the field recently. Once we get to the arena, we work in trot and canter for 20mins solid until trainer arrives down to explain the plan for the day, walk around while he givs his instructions for 5-10mins, then a few more caners around the arena while the first horses go up to the gallops - no hanging around in walk. They are all quite swaeted up by the time they go up to the gallops. Now is the time to increase the exercise while the weather is mild and you dont have to worry about chills from sweating up ( as you miht when you have limited time in the winter). I know Im talking about TBs here, but the principles are the same for getting any horse fit/trim. Some of our TBs are unrecognisable as racehorses after their break - a few are quite fat!
 
I would feed the hay by weight in kg rather than sections so you know how much he is getting, if he is on fairly good grass he might not actually need that much hay. Apples and carrots with a handful of chaff would be okay, and a small amount of token feed that is low energy (as energy equals calories) and high fibre topped up with a vit/min supplement- I found my horses actually put weight on when they were on a lo calorie balancer so I took them off it.

You might even find you can keep the feed the same, but if you feed the hay by a certain KG weight every day rather than per slice, he might trim down- maybe a feedline might be able to help, although they all give different advice!

To get weight off = feed less, work more, lots of long hacks walking out on a contact to fitten and tone up should help, as would really getting him to really work when he is schooling. It's so difficult though, I'm constantly having to keep an eye on my horses and the rain we've had lately has meant the grass has shot up! Also do you have any all weather gallops near you, as if the ground isn't good for faster work maybe you could do some faster stuff on the gallops.
 
Thanks everyone, can't post a picture at the moment as I'm at work, will try and take some tonight.

I meant to say that George has a joint supplement on the vets advice because he has windgalls, so will have to have a little feed, but it could just be a handful of hi-fi with his supplement and lo-cal. Think I will do that, with extra intensity exercise and cut out the carrots and apple.

He isn't going to realise what has hit him, but then again neither am I with all that extra cantering and trotting!
 
TBH, both lo cal, and hifi lite have very few calories so don't think you'd gain much from cutting down on his feeds. Does he cope well with his current workload? Is he sweaty/puffing abit afterwards? Personally i'd make your schooling sessions more intense, make him work harder for his food
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Louby, I think your feed merchant should talk to Top Spec if he needs a bit of help with advising on how to feed their balancers. They recommend they are fed with chaff, then add other products if needed (which often they are not).
 
I wouldn't bother with dropping the Hifi lite. Our vet always uses it for feeding laminitics. He says the energy used & calories burned by the horse chewing the stuff for outweight the actual calories in it. If you need to administer some medication then it's good to have some 'feed' to put it in. Additionally if your horse is in stables where the others all get fed at the same time then it's good for him to have a bucket as well, they keep happier, it matters not that there's nothing very appertising in it.
 
Haven't read all the replies but I would really recommend NAF Slimline. It's a general vit and min supplement but helps horses to loose weight by boosting their metabolism. Certainly worked on Daisy.
 
I would cut out his feeds - does he need them for any particular reason?!

His weight doesn't sound horrendous at all to be honest based on his size and breed type and in all honesty he doesn't look fat in any of your pics and surely some are summer ones?

If you want something a bit more 'calorie-burning' (I am assuming you were on about schooling work?) then maybe hitch your stirrups up, assume cross country position and do a few circuits of the school on each rein at a good collected gallop/faster canter to get him working a bit. It's also good for working the old thigh and bum muscles and helps improve your balance. If you're schooling in a field you can do the same if you feel happy doing so - work out how long a few laps is (ie a mile or something) and give yourself a good burn!

It doesn't have to be at any hair raising speed just kept at a good, consistent pace.
 
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