Worried vet won't support me

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southerncomfort

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My elderly mare has started having seizures. I've been told that the likely cause is a tumour.

Vet has been talking about possible treatment, but I feel very strongly that I don't want to put her through lots of invasive tests and pump her full of drugs. She has other issues and I feel the best thing is to PTS before her seizures get worse and she begins to suffer.

I mentioned this to the vet and he said not to make any quick decisions and that I should see how she goes over the summer/autumn.

I'm worried sick now that he won't support my decision to PTS and that I'll be forced to keep her going.

I know I could call the hunt but that isn't the end I wanted for her.

Anyone been in a similar position? Any advice on how to put my case to the vet? I'm honestly worrying myself sick about the whole situation.
 
southerncomfort said:
My elderly mare has started having seizures. I've been told that the likely cause is a tumour.

Vet has been talking about possible treatment, but I feel very strongly that I don't want to put her through lots of invasive tests and pump her full of drugs. She has other issues and I feel the best thing is to PTS before her seizures get worse and she begins to suffer.

I mentioned this to the vet and he said not to make any quick decisions and that I should see how she goes over the summer/autumn.

I'm worried sick now that he won't support my decision to PTS and that I'll be forced to keep her going.

I know I could call the hunt but that isn't the end I wanted for her.

Anyone been in a similar position? Any advice on how to put my case to the vet? I'm honestly worrying myself sick about the whole situation.
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I'm sorry about your mare. I'd also pts in your situation. Changing vets would be an idea or you could just firmly tell your vet you have decided to pts and ask is he willing to do it.
I find vets (the younger ones ime) are too keen to continue treatment when it's not in the animals best interest. They used to use their common sense.
 
Sort of once with a young horse that injured itself in a storm .
I allowed myself to be talked into a long period of box rest etc etc the horse was stressed and unhappy and eventually when it got into the paddock it went lame again after two hours .
I wanted it put straight down the vet did not want to ( my usual vet was away ) I had a blinding flash of light and rang the kennels it was pts two hours later .
My advice would be to stand by your desision and get the thing done a vet can’t make you treat a horse .
You know your horse and your own mind and situation best
I would ring the vet and explain that you taken the desision and book a appointment to pts .
Alternatively find a alternative route to pts a hunt kennels is a good option .
Of course I don’t know your vet so I make no judgement on wants driving their view but remember vets hard wired to do stuff it’s why they became vets and they also all have the botttom line in the back of their mind .
There’s not a lot of profit in pts .
Try not to worry to much and I am sorry about your horse .
 
I am sorry to hear about your horse.To be honest, it’s totally your decision as to what you do with your horse.They will always put there point across as not really allowed to just stand there and say yes PTS.They do have to give options however they should also listen to your concerns and thoughts.If it was me in your position, I would call the vet and say Thankyou for explaining all my options but really feel that due to the horse also having other issue and her age,you are really concerned now about her having a seizure when nobody around and/or having a seizure and potentially hurting you or somebody else at the same time.Although there are ways you can go,because of her age you have decided to let her go whilst she is still relatively good and it’s in a controlled environment.If vet still doesn’t want to go for what your wishes are-tell them you will have to look at getting another vet who will go by your wishes. Sadly a lot of vets these days will always push for more and different treatments as they earn more money.Stand by your choices.I would also put to sleep in your position.
 
Try calling the BHS "Friends at the end" line. They may be able to offer some important insights. I agree with others - vets get into that profession to save life not end it. Plus the automatic response is more likely to be treatment options than not. But you have made the right deicicon for you and your horse. They will support you. Its hard enough to make that deiccion. You don't need to worry about them making it harder.
 
Is there a different vet in your practice? Could you use a different practice?

The decision is yours to make, you know the horse best and you are the one who has to handle her on a daily basis. Apart from the mare's health, you have to take into account your own safety, what if she has a seizure while you are in the stable with her and you get injured?

It's a horrible position to be in, it's hard enough making the decision without having the vet making it even harder. I would just ring the practice and book in pts, probably asking for a different vet to come out. But should you decide to use the hunt instead, please be reassured that it will be quick and the mare will know nothing at all about it.

I am so sorry that you find yourself having to make this decision for your mare but I would make the same decision.
 
There's a particular practice around here which is known for keeping something going when frankly PTS would be a far kinder option; this is typically in a situation where its a well-loved kids pony or similar, and like OP's situation they don't seem to want to make "the decision" - rather they'll unashamedly recommend every "investigation" and medication which will cost the owner a packet, all to no avail. Totally unfair to horse and owner.

OP this is YOUR mare and it is YOUR decision what to do about her. You know her better than anyone else and you know what she is "saying" to you.

IF you feel that it is time to make "the decision" some time soon, rather than go the treatment/investigation route, then your vet should and indeed must, respect that choice.

Right now you are feeling (understandably) leary and upset by the whole situation; and of course it is difficult now, in the circumstances outlined, to get another vet in. But I think that if you feel strongly that PTS is the right choice for your mare, then you have to stand firm and insist. Also, if for economic reasons you feel unable to go the investigation/treatment route as you feel the end-result may still be the same, there is no need to feel guilty at PTS for this reason either. You are wanting to give your mare the best quality of life that you can achieve for her, and right now you don't feel it would be fair to put her through any more. Fair enough, and your vet must respect this.

Of course (sorry if this is distressing), you could bypass the vet as there are other options for PTS (by other means) ...... I've had horses PTS by the local hunt in the past, as well as vet.

So sorry you are in this position.
 
Given that a horse having a seizure could be potentially quite dangerous I think the vet should support your decision. It depends on your relationship with the vet but you can either discuss again or find a different vet. I wouldn't want a vet to PTS my horse if I felt they were not supportive though. I would find someone (another vet or the hunt) who could manage it without judgement. It's difficult enough.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Much strength to you. X
 
I have taken a few to bt PTS by the hunt over the years and always found it very quick and easy and stressfree. Their head is in a bucket of feed and it's over before they know it. I would always pick it over the injection, especially for an elder horse. I've seen some where bad circulation meant the injection didn't work properly. If you didn't want to use the vet (understandably) then definitely have a think about the hunt.
 
so sorry your vet isnt being supportive, as your mare is elderly and has other issues as well as seizures it sounds like you are making the right decision ...i spoke to my vet before having my cushings mare PTS and after the vet looking at her she said she agreed that it was the best thing to do as cushings was out of control and laminitis would be the next event. my lovely YO arranged for the hunt to come and she held her at the last moment as i felt too upset, she went while eating a bowl of carrots and knew nothing. the huntsman was very kind and respectful and i would do the same again if i needed a horse PTS. if you cannot get a vet the huint would be a good option. good luck with whatever you decide...
 
i agree to find a vet who is much more of a realist. -- an all around livestock vet (as opposed to strictly equine), might be the better option.

I have laid five horses to rest in the span of sixty years of horse ownership. None of them were easy but all were completely necessary.

I feel my current equine facility waited too long before they would listen to me, regarding my 29 year old Arab.

I still have two horses, 23 & 25. One stays in good pasture health because I pour a lot of money into him. The other one only deals with a bad stifle and old age dry hocks; he is rideable but woild need a "no fear" rider as he loves to intimidate people. Their chances of landing on a slaughter truck are better than finding a good home.

I am 72 so my health situation could change in a flash. My current farm vet is an all around livestock vet. He did hesitatingly agree he would PTS both these senior horses if I get to where I can't care for them, financially or physically.

I wish you the best in finding a vet to help you -- making "that" decision is tough enough when you know it's the right thing to do.
 
paddi22 said:
I have taken a few to bt PTS by the hunt over the years and always found it very quick and easy and stressfree. Their head is in a bucket of feed and it's over before they know it. I would always pick it over the injection, especially for an elder horse. I've seen some where bad circulation meant the injection didn't work properly. If you didn't want to use the vet (understandably) then definitely have a think about the hunt.
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The hunt will usually come out to your yard, if you don't want to travel the horse. We have an Equine Crematorium locally, who are equally good and will come to pts at home, then remove the body..
 
Thank you all so much, you've helped allay my fears.

The vet who came was very young so I think if it comes to it I will ask to speak to the senior vet.

My problem is my mare looks great. But she only looks great because I'm putting £50 of feed and hay replacer through her every week!

But the point is, I don't want to wait until she has deteriorated and is sick and scared or has lost her sight. I would far rather let her go now rather than waiting for her to get worse. As dreadful as this is for me I just don't want her to suffer.

I've been reading about a local equine crematorium and they do offer 'alternative PTS'. As I say it isn't really what I would want but I'd certainly prefer it to keeping her alive and suffering.
 
for what its worth i absolutely agree with doing it before she is suffering, she is an older horse so you know she wont get better and PTS is inevitable and better sooner IMO....so sorry you are having trouble arranging this but maybe the senior vet will be more realistic...hope all goes well...
 
I am sorry to hear about your horse. I think I would want the same in your position. My last practice had 1 very pragmatic vet who we relied on for the 'tough but real' decisions so if you've got one of those then give them a call. The more experienced vets have seen distressed owners and are much better at managing those end of life discussions IMO
 
I think it's rubbish to say they want to keep treating for the profit- Likely the horse looks well and the vet is saying see if they continue as most owners are loathe to pts a healthy looking animal even knowing there is an underlying illness.
In saying that I would see no problem with you calling the vet to say you have decided to pts your horse, please can they arrange it- if they try and talk you out of it just calmly say that you have decided this the course you want to choos-e I can't see them being too annoyed as many less ill animals are killed regularly!
 
You don't have to ask the vet, there are people around who will come and do it, although the vet could use an injection the others would use a gun. BUT it is instant. It isn't nice to contemplate but the animals know nothing, they have their heads in a bucket of feed, and they just drop.
 
It is possible the vet was suggesting possible treatments to try to spare your feelings - when you tell them you would prefer to PTS the vet may be relieved too.

If it makes any difference I think PTS would be the best course of action as well. In situations like this it is harder on you but easier on the horse to make the call while she is still looking and feeling quite well.
 
SusieT said:
I think it's rubbish to say they want to keep treating for the profit- Likely the horse looks well and the vet is saying see if they continue as most owners are loathe to pts a healthy looking animal even knowing there is an underlying illness.
In saying that I would see no problem with you calling the vet to say you have decided to pts your horse, please can they arrange it- if they try and talk you out of it just calmly say that you have decided this the course you want to choos-e I can't see them being too annoyed as many less ill animals are killed regularly!
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Sadly it’s not rubbish to say they want to keep treating for profit-my brother in law is a vet.He left the Very Good Equine Practice he was happily working at a few years ago when it was being sold and bought by a Large Pharmaceutical Company as he didn’t like a few things the new company were asking of him, a main one that they would be earning commission for getting X rays,MRI,Ultrasound etc and he was not happy having to push extra treatments which weren’t necessarily needed for him to earn an income.
The Op has said that they mentioned about PTS even though horse looks healthy but vet said give the summer to see what happens putting the Op into a position where they don’t know if vet will go with what she wants.
 
If vet doesn't know you much/you don't have a long relationship with them then I suspect they are being cautious with your feelings/and just looking at the horse in front of them now rather than the what might happen/knowing exactly what you are doing now to keep them like that.

I'm sure if you did ask them just to come and PTS they would.
 
I haven't been with this practice long so it might be that they are just testing how I feel about things by offering medication. I just wish he had mentioned that PTS was also an option.

I'll phone him today I think and put my wishes across.
 
southerncomfort said:
My elderly mare has started having seizures. I've been told that the likely cause is a tumour.

Vet has been talking about possible treatment, but I feel very strongly that I don't want to put her through lots of invasive tests and pump her full of drugs. She has other issues and I feel the best thing is to PTS before her seizures get worse and she begins to suffer.

I mentioned this to the vet and he said not to make any quick decisions and that I should see how she goes over the summer/autumn.

I'm worried sick now that he won't support my decision to PTS and that I'll be forced to keep her going.

I know I could call the hunt but that isn't the end I wanted for her.

Anyone been in a similar position? Any advice on how to put my case to the vet? I'm honestly worrying myself sick about the whole situation.
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Surely it's got to be your decision especially as she is elderly. Had a case on a previous livery yard years ago where there were some owners that had a lovely 7 year old gelding who had slight kissing spine issues but the owners couldn't be bothered with the rehab involved. The vet felt the horse had a very good prognosis without surgery with daily rehab involved for a few months. The owner (a young immature teenage girl) just wanted to ride and really didn't have the time or the money to be dealing with the horse - didn't want to know, she'd just bought a puppy and was going off the whole horse ownership idea. So the mother booked the vet to come out and PTS.

The vet intervened on the day of the appointment and said he felt that the horse could go on to live a long and purposeful life and wanted them to give him a week to find it a home. They eventually relented and a home was found for it as a companion initially with the rehab being promised with a view to eventually riding if all was well. They in the end let the horse go to the new home. It did pass away from colic after a week but at least it had a chance. But I think that's the only reason a vet should intervene. It is the owners decision, especially with your horse being elderly. If your vet won't help you maybe it would be worth getting another opinion from a different practice.
 
The decision you are thinking of is the one I would take too.

I completely get the young vet guilt trip, I succumbed to it a few years back, god knows why - I’m pretty set in my opinions and I was guilt tripped into keeping the horse alive for another year, for the exact same outcome - only the second time I called the hunt.

If you are sure you want the vets to do the deed then I’d arrange a call with a senior partner and just get them to record your wishes in your medical notes - then when the time is right, you make the call and there should be no further discussion on the matter.
 
I am sorry, but if you wished to have the horse PTS for no reason whatsoever then they should do so.

PTS is not considered in law a cruel thing (if it was then we would all be veggie) as long as it is done compassionately. Even in a healthy horse. Even in a young horse.

I know of an old hunting type who gave up hunting and had their horses PTS at the end of the season when he finished. At the time we were all shocked and I, for one, did not understand how he could do that. The longer I live though, the more I understand it. The horses had a useful life, he could not (or did not want to) ensure their future safety, so he did what he thought was best. He took the horses to kennels, they thought they were off hunting again then they were gone.

It was not what I would have done, but it is his right to do it.

Do not feel at all guilty OP, book to PTS, if they won't do it then find someone who will. I can understand a vet wanting to try treatments etc, but it is not their horse so not their decision. I guess they can refuse to do it themselves, but would hope they would not lecture you.
 
ihatework said:
If you are sure you want the vets to do the deed then I’d arrange a call with a senior partner and just get them to record your wishes in your medical notes - then when the time is right, you make the call and there should be no further discussion on the matter.
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This is what I did for Jay Man. He was a wobbler, extra treatment kept him going for another year, he had been retired completely for 6 months. I had it on his notes not to argue etc, not to suggest treatment, that one day I would ring to PTS and it was all pre-OKed by the attending vet.

The day came, I rang and 3 hours later he was gone. The receptionist referred to the notes and all was smooth.
 
I agree about speaking to an older vet, particularly if there's one you've dealt with a few times. I'm not convinced by the theory that vets will keep going to make money but I do think there is a strong wish to try & save an animal if there's even the slimmest chance & until they've seen more of life then this sometimes overrules common sense.

I wouldn't rule out asking the hunt to come out, particularly given the problem. The only pts by injection that I've seen go badly wrong was an elderly pony who was having ever worsening seizures with no apparent trigger. It seemed that his system couldn't circulate or react properly to the drug used & the result was horrific & dangerous despite the vet doing everything right & putting increasing amounts of the drug into him. It was a miracle that neither of us were hurt & I was so thankful the owner wasn't there to see. Much as I prefer an injection if I ever have one with a similar problem I would arrange for the hunt to come out.
 
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