Worst nightmare....., or is it?

[MrsNorris]

Sorry this is a bit of an essay, some of you may remember my threads about my EMS horse and how worried I've been about laminitis, well seemed like it had all gone horribly wrong yesterday. Horse came in from the field at 10:30am, muzzled as always, sound and full of beans, trotted straight up the stony drive with no issues.

Farrier came and put on a full set at 1:30, horse is usually very quiet to shoe, but started pulling his feet away this time towards the end of the shoeing. Farrier said he's just being naughty.

Went to turn horse out at 8pm and he could barely walk, so painful in front that I thought he was going to go down on the yard. Managed to get him back in the stable, was only a few steps, pulses pounding in both fronts, obviously in agony.

So I immediately assumed laminitis, called emergency vet and rang my farrier to tell him what had happened.
Bedded horse down on tons of shavings, he immediately went down and didn't want to get up again.
I went into full panic mode...

Farrier said he would come out and arrived at the same time as the vet. He pulled both fronts and horse seemed easier straight away. He used hoof testers whilst the vet and I watched, and said there was no reaction over the nail holes, even tho the vet and I thought we saw a reaction.
He said he was sure it wasn't anything to do with the shoeing, and left.
Vet then got her hoof testers out, and found 1 medial nail hole which provoked a reaction on the left front, and a lateral nail hole on the right front which did the same. There was no generalised reaction, just very specific to the nail holes.

Vet thinks it is nail bind in both his front feet.

She gave him injectable painkillers and left me with metacam to use from this evening and instructions to keep him in over the weekend and watch closely.

He's much more comfortable now, standing most of the time, pulse in left has all but disappeared, in right is still quite obvious.

I'm stunned tbh, never expected nail bind in both fronts, must be pretty rare I would imagine. Farrier is very experienced and has shod this horse many times.

So is it really nail bind or is it laminitis? Is there a way to tell for sure? Can laminitis come on that fast from nothing? I just don't know what to think now.
Obviously desperately hoping it is nail bind, but just not totally sure.

 

[Antw23uk]

Hold on so it walks/ trots in happy with no shoes and five minutes after your farrier puts shoes on it cant walk ... Am I missing something that doesn't just scream that its the shoes which have messed him up?

 

[Ladyinred]

Sadly yes, laminitis can come on that fast

But this sounds like possibly the horse was verging on a lami attack, hence pulling his feet away, and the farrier tried to carry on when really he should have stopped and wondered why a normally calm horse was acting like that. Shoeing a struggling horse is hardly ideal and it sounds as if there was also nail bind contributing to the pain.

You are on the right track and seem to have reacted very quickly, I hope your horse recovers with no further problems.

 

[9tails]

Sounds like too-small shoes and farrier trying to cover his arse.

 

[milliepops]

Hold on so it walks/ trots in happy with no shoes and five minutes after your farrier puts shoes on it cant walk ... Am I missing something that doesn't just scream that its the shoes which have messed him up?

^^ this! Especially with the rapid improvement when offending nails removed. Did your farrier offer an alternative cause?
Hope horse continues with a speedy recovery.

 

[be positive]

Sadly yes, laminitis can come on that fast

But this sounds like possibly the horse was verging on a lami attack, hence pulling his feet away, and the farrier tried to carry on when really he should have stopped and wondered why a normally calm horse was acting like that. Shoeing a struggling horse is hardly ideal and it sounds as if there was also nail bind contributing to the pain.

You are on the right track and seem to have reacted very quickly, I hope your horse recovers with no further problems.

This would be the most likely scenario, a horse bordering on laminitis will probably be fine in the comfy old shoes but once the farrier took them off and started to trim back the growth any minor inflammation would be triggered into a full blown attack.

I don't see it as the farrier putting on shoes that were too small as the cause, he may have tried to cover his back for the nail bind but I suspect that is more because the area was more sensitive than it should be rather than 2 seriously misplaced nails, farriers do not set out to cripple horses despite what some people may believe, most are good at their job and aim to keep horses sound.

If it was just nail bind I would expect an almost immediate recovery, I had one that had it that after the offending nail was removed went straight on to compete the same day, a few hours in an otherwise healthy foot should not cause such a dramatic reaction as the OP had unless he had gone into really sensitive laminae and with that there would have been a fair amount of blood to be seen.

 

[MrsNorris]

Hold on so it walks/ trots in happy with no shoes and five minutes after your farrier puts shoes on it cant walk ... Am I missing something that doesn't just scream that its the shoes which have messed him up?

Well it was a good few hours, horse was just left in his stable then until 8pm, when I went to turn him out.

 

[MrsNorris]

Sadly yes, laminitis can come on that fast

But this sounds like possibly the horse was verging on a lami attack, hence pulling his feet away, and the farrier tried to carry on when really he should have stopped and wondered why a normally calm horse was acting like that. Shoeing a struggling horse is hardly ideal and it sounds as if there was also nail bind contributing to the pain.

You are on the right track and seem to have reacted very quickly, I hope your horse recovers with no further problems.

Well this is what I'm worried about Ladyinred, he's never had laminitis, but has been slightly footy with raised pulses on occasion. He has had no pulses and was not footy though for a few weeks maybe prior to this. He has never been lame and most people wouldn't have ever noticed when he's slightly footy, but I've had him years and these days can see the slightest change in how he's feeling, honed by years of worrying and checking!
He was his usual perfect self for the farrier until the first front was nailed on, and I asked the farrier (as I always do) if there were any signs of laminitis, to which he said no, everything's perfect.

 

[MrsNorris]

^^ this! Especially with the rapid improvement when offending nails removed. Did your farrier offer an alternative cause?
Hope horse continues with a speedy recovery.

He was better straight away, but still in quite a lot of pain I would say.

 

[MrsNorris]

This would be the most likely scenario, a horse bordering on laminitis will probably be fine in the comfy old shoes but once the farrier took them off and started to trim back the growth any minor inflammation would be triggered into a full blown attack.

I don't see it as the farrier putting on shoes that were too small as the cause, he may have tried to cover his back for the nail bind but I suspect that is more because the area was more sensitive than it should be rather than 2 seriously misplaced nails, farriers do not set out to cripple horses despite what some people may believe, most are good at their job and aim to keep horses sound.

If it was just nail bind I would expect an almost immediate recovery, I had one that had it that after the offending nail was removed went straight on to compete the same day, a few hours in an otherwise healthy foot should not cause such a dramatic reaction as the OP had unless he had gone into really sensitive laminae and with that there would have been a fair amount of blood to be seen.

Yeah this is what I'm thinking be positive, he's a good farrier, one misplaced nail, ok it happens sometimes, par for the course, but 2? It just doesn't seem that likely.
Horse was shod in his stable on Eva mats and stayed there for 6 hours, there was no blood as far as I could see when the shoes came off, but the horse was immediately willing to walk, whereas he wasn't with the shoes on, he was almost on his knees.
He's looking much better now, been standing up all day, not rocking back or from side to side, so fingers crossed it resolves soon, whatever it is!

Probably a daft question, but would a couple of extra strong mints have enough sugar to trigger something in an IR horse?
Only saw him get one, made a joke about him not being allowed them, but I was out catching horses when farrier first arrived, so he could have been given some then, I don't know.

 

[OWLIE185]

If a horse has Laminitis they are normally more sensitive to hoof testers when they are placed on the area of the toe.
I would play safe and treat as for Laminitis and make sure he has a nice thick bed, one slice of one hour soaked hay every 4 hours 24/7 and no other food.
It may be worthwhile fitting rubber frog supports.
If the condition persists then get some x rays taken to check for any rotation of the pedal bone.
Hope he makes a speedy and quick recovery.

 

[Magister]

I had a 17.1 warmblood event horse that shifted a front shoe in the lorry. Whilst I walked the XC the farrier at the event just nailed the shoe tight (cockeyed and too far back) rather than taking it off and starting again. By the time I got back to the box he was lame, got the shoe taken off and by the time we got home was lame with laminitis on one front foot. He developed a crack the whole way round the coronary band and was three months before he was back in light work. I learned the hard way never to leave a farrier with an inexperienced handler and that yes, poor shoeing can cause laminitis very rapidly. He had never had laminitis before or since.
Also had a little Welsh A who arrived on the yard with long feet. Farrier got a little enthusiastic trying to make the feet look perfect in one go,over trimmed him and went lami. Fortunately only mild but still 3 weeks on box rest.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Have you had x rays done? It might be the only sure fire way of checking for movement of the pedal bone. I'd want them done, it's only a couple of hundred normally.

 

[MrsNorris]

Quick update, horse is now sound in walk on our unmade yard without front shoes and after having been pared to apply shoes, and pulses have disappeared along with the filling of his lower legs. He is still on metacam, so that may be masking some pain, but he's only had one dose and that was 6pm yesterday. Will try him out again tonight after he's been 24 hours without any drugs, and see what happens, at the moment, he seems completely back to normal thank goodness.
To me, this says it cannot be laminitis, as I've never heard of a horse barely able to walk one minute, and he really couldn't, it was awful to watch, and then sound 48 hours later, with laminitis.
Thoughts please?

 

[smja]

I've no direct experience with laminitics, but do have a horse with extremely sensitive feet and several instances of nail bind. Mine is better as soon as nails removed, but still lame to a lesser degree for the next day or two. Farrier is very wise to it now so not had it for a while (touch wood) but when it did happen he was straight there to sort it out.

The presentation you describe sounds like nail bind, and the farrier's response not ideal.

 

[MrsNorris]

Ok, so just been to yard and had a look at the shoes, there is visible blood on both of them.

I am now furious :mad4: the farrier must have seen that when he removed them, but still denied it was the shoes and let me stew and worry about it for a few days.......completely unacceptable in my eyes

I'm obviously thrilled it's not laminitis, but totally pissed off with farrier for not coming clean. I could have accepted an honest mistake, but not this.

 

[atropa]

That's not on MrsNorris, have you spoken to farrier about the blood? Think it might be time to look for a new farrier So sorry you've had to go through all this worry, I have a horse currently on boxrest for preclinical lami and it's awful.

 

[Pebble101]

So glad it isn't laminitis.

 

[Moobucket]

Have you ever thought about taking your horse bare foot? It seems that you are very on the ball with regard to laminitis and shoes do tend to mask the signs instead of help them. Might be something to consider.