Would a Kineton help? Please please ideas....

[lennysmith]

Ok. Josie has descovered the fine art of napping and evading the bit. She is NEVER dangerous, and wont do it while out on hacks. However she'll quite happily 'have me on' for ages in the menage. I know it's prob got a lot to do with the fields being shut as they're just mud, but she's learning BAD habbits that need to be broken.

She never bucks, rears or anything, just lifts her head so high I cant control her and bolts off. I do have brakes, but only when she's finished her 'episode'.

She's currently in Waterford dutch gag on 2nd hole and flash nose band. Oh and running martingale.

My friend suggested a Kineton? Would this help? I need to get her head down, but I will not put anything stronger in her mouth. She hates too much pressure in her mouth anyway and just runs, hence the waterford. Would I need to change bits with the Kineton?

Hope someone clever out there can help??

 

[frannieuk]

I may be wrong but I understood that the action of most gag bits is to raise the head (and certainy seemed to on my girl), have you thought about trying a pelham which (with 2 reins) may have a lowering effect on her. I don't know enough about the kineton nosebands to comment but be interested to see what others say as I have a similar problem with my youngster!

 

[Maesfen]

At the risk of being shot down in flames and I might have missed something these past couple of weeks so bear with me but, if she only does it in the menage, I would be thinking of going back to the start and trying her in a mullen mouth, even a pelham as suggested before; taking the noseband off completely or replacing it with a cavesson only so she has nothing to fight you about, I'd still use the running martingale though and trying to work her through this with lots of transitions, changes of rein etc (can't be too technical, I don't know what I'm talking about but I know how I like my horses to behave and this is how I would start to work on this if that makes sense!) I'd also be telling her in no uncertain terms what I thought of that thuggish behaviour and make her work as hard and as long as it takes to get some sense out of her; each time it should take a shorter time until she has broken the habit of taking off with you just because she wants to.
As for the Kineton, it's not something I would be thinking about for schooling; I've always understood it to be useful for very strong horses, in fact I've only seen it on hunters and eventers though I'm sure others do use it; I'll leave that to better qualified people than me!

Complete change of subject but did Becki ever get in touch with you about that foal rug you have, I did tell her too?

 

[vicijp]

I would go for a straight bar rubber snaffle, maybe add a loose bungee for a couple of days to help snap her out of it.

 

[lennysmith]

I was thinking about a pelham Pat, yes. It was just that a friend suggested the Kineton but I didn't know much about them.

Yes I pmd Becki and she has the rug ready and waiting already xxx

 

[Maesfen]

Glad Vicky is thinking along the same lines, gives me hope I'm not as thick as I thought!

I've just re read my reply though and I did forget to say to use the Pelham without a curb chain and only one rein (on the top socket, not the bottom) first to see how you get on if you don't have access to a mullen mouth snaffle just now. You can always add the bottom rein if you think that might help but I would still not fit a curb chain for now. Sometimes a mullen mouth helps them stop fussing and a jointed type bit might be uncomfortable for her especially if she has a short mouth which a lot of her type do; out hacking she might not notice it as much as there are other things to keep her mind occupied but in a school it would become a top priority for her and she would try to do something about it as she is doing!

Thanks for passing on the rug, sounds like it could soon be in use!

 

[lennysmith]

Thanks Pat/ Yep have completely gone off the idea of A Kineton now. have spent the morning doing a bit of reading and it does seem a bit to severe for my liking.

Have beem thinking about a pelham for a while now, infact everytime she lifts her bloomin head!!!! As you say the mullen mouth may stop her fussing. It's all worth a try anyway.

I hope for Becki's sake that rug can be used soon!

 

[lennysmith]

oo I think I do have a bungee laying about somewhere from my old horse. You may have a good point there

 

[Baggybreeches]

I had a pony who was the same I put her in a mullen mouth kimblewick and she was fab, also like Pat and Vicky say it is the behaviour that needs to be changed by working in a different way. With my pony if she had a paddy at something I would be very careful to do a completely diferent exercise to take her mind off it and then come back to what I wanted to do when I had her attention again> She was so rustrating but at the same time the most rewarding little witch, sometimes I would be riding quietly plugging away for 2.5hours ust to get her to give!

 

[lennysmith]

Lol thanyou. Our mares sound exactly the same. Nothing I cant handle but frustrating never the less. Had a minor break through this morning , but tomorrow is another day.

I'm def going to try the pelham and may even give the kimblewick a go to. Thankyou xx

 

[rojeth]

I am worried that you are dismissing a kineton, but are using a waterford dutch gag instead, with a flash noseband!

TBH im not surprised she is fighting you the wholetime as that bit is VERY harsh!

Also, a pelham on the middle ring and without a curb is essentially a snaffle. Not using a curb on a pelham completely alters its effects, and acts just like a normal snaffle.

Have a look at www.sustainabledressage.net, which gives a great breakdown of the different bits and their actions, especially that of the waterford gag. There are also some notes on the kineton noseband.

Maybe she just doesnt like schooling. do you vary your schooling, and have you considered working on groundwork and manners with her? Have her tack/ saddle/ back been checked? she might have underlying issues that you havent noticed.