Would it be crazy to try MagOx/Cinnamon for this laminitic?

C

canteron

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 October 2008
Messages
4,144
Location
Cloud Cockoo Land
Visit site
Does anyone feed MagOx and Cinnamon together for EMS and laminitus? And if so, what quantities.

I have an elderly horse who has been in pony prison for the last 2 months and on 35 (yep 35) tables of Metformin ... and after all that his EMS levels have gone up a lot, even though he has lost a lot of weight and is so much sounder which makes absolutely no sense. (For anyone clever, his readings have gone from 200 to off the scale!).

I have always promised myself that as long as I can give this horse a good quality of life he can stay with me - so I am going to carry on monitoring his weight, but would like to try the MagOx and Cinnamon route. Is this crazy? The vet wants to do another course of Metformin (and cushions test which they initially ruled out?!) but I can't see any good reason to follow this advice.

Does anyone have any experience of this and any advice and please could you tell me the quantity of Cinnamon for a 500kg horse!

And as for the Metformin, well my experience isn't great, so if anyones vet is suggesting they put their horse on it, please really question them as to the management routine and their success ratios etc and neither my horse or I have enjoyed the past 2 months!
 
I give my old lad cinnamon he has metabolic syndrome and it seems to help him, hes currantly on topspec antilam and on restricted grazing, he looks really well and hasnt been footy for months now, in fact hes too bloody well :-/ 27 going on 2!!!
 
Ticobay thanks for that - reassuring.

How much do you feed and what sort of size is your boy.

Mine is a 15hh cob I would think about 500kg and would love some guidelines.
 
Laminitis can be caused by a number of different things and Cushings Disease is one of them (especially in older horses). If your horse suspects your horse has Cushings then your vet should be allowed to test for it if it is found that your horse has Cushings disease then your vet can prescribe accoringly.
 
I've just put my ems pony on mag oxide, she is sound and her insulin levels are back to normal so I'm hoping the metformin and mag ox and exercise will keep her that way. She weighs 202kg and the vet recommended I feed 10g per day of mag ox but said if she gets loose dropping to reduce it slightly.
 
hes 15hh w/tb he has a heaped teaspoon twice a day, i introduced it over a week started off with a sprinkle so he got used to the taste but he loves it :-) got it off ebay.x
 
First of all - best wishes for you and your IR horse, these can be very tricky to manage, but not impossible.

Magox is a useful supplement, but it does need to be balanced. You can find out how to from the ECIR Yahoo group and also:

Copied from the ECIR Yahoo group

"Cinnamon is no longer routinely recommended. It had been hoped to improve insulin sensitivity, but instead it may lower blood sugar (glucose) without lowering insulin levels. Since most IR horses have glucose in the normal ranges, cinnamon sometimes lowers it too much. For that reason, the ECIR Group doesn't use it routinely. If you have a horse that is a true diabetic - high glucose - then cinnamon may be helpful."

They have also found Metaformin to be of limited use.

Also
AVOID OR USE CAUTIOUSLY WITH CUSHING’S & IR HORSES

• ACEPROMAZINE, referred to as Ace, is the only commonly used drug that actually has the potential to directly interfere with pergolide. Phenothiazine tranquilizers suppress dopamine therefore having the exact opposite effect of pergolide.
• ALFALFA tends to test lower *on the average* for sugar than some grass hays, but also contains starch, & contains more actual glucose than an equivalent amount of grass hay. Some IR horses just don't tolerate it. Others are fine on it.
• CORTICOSTEROIDS should be avoided in horses prone to laminitis. This includes low dose administration for the Dexamethasone Suppression Test. The exception would be in a life-threatening situation.
• FATS in large amounts can cause or worsen IR. Stay at lower than 3% to 4% of the entire diet (percentage subject to change as we learn more specifically related to horses regarding fat's ability to cause IR). The exception to this, of course, would be the horse with PSSM/EPSM.
• FREE CHOICE MINERALS is not an effective way to supplement and balance a horse’s minerals. Contrary to popular belief, horses do not instinctively know what minerals they need. They will eat these sporadically, depending on the flavoring added to the mineral. Mineral supplements should be based on a complete diet analysis, and then fed on a daily basis.
• GLUCOSAMINE administered intravenously is definitely not recommended and a most recent study showed oral glucosamine has the potential to worsen IR in individuals that have it. Prior studies, however, have shown it does not cause IR. Caution is recommended with very sensitive IR horses.
• METHYLSULFONYLMETHANE (MSM), also known as methyl sulfone or dimethylsulfone, in some cases can be an effective anti-inflammatory but be aware it can influence mineral uptake, particularly selenium and copper. Check your horse’s blood levels for these minerals regularly.
• MONO and DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE salts commonly run 20,000 to 30,000 ppm iron per Dr. Kellon. Avoid any supplement containing mono or dicalcium phosphate, bone meal, colloidal clays, clays or rock phosphate as all these may have extremely high iron levels. To supplement phosphorus use mono sodium phosphate instead.
• NITRATES have the potential to interfere with thyroid function with chronic low-level ingestion. Severe nitrate poisoning can cause abortion. If you are in an agricultural area, testing well water for nitrates is advisable.
• NSAIDs like Phenylbutazone (Bute) and Banamine® (flunixin) given long-term and/or in high doses increase the risks of ulceration of the stomach and GI tract and can cause kidney damage. They also have negative effects on circulation and healing.
• PRAZIQUANTEL a wormer often combined with moxidectin (Quest Plus) and ivermectin (ie. EquiMAX, Zimecterin Gold), significantly increased serum glucose level in both hyperglycemic rats and after glucose load. Since insulin levels are not significantly altered by praziquantel, the hyperglycemic effect of this drug may be attributed to inhibition of peripheral glucose utilization. It is NOT known if the same would occur in a horse when using the combination dewormers but it's worth bearing in mind. Risks vs. benefits should be discussed with your treating vet if your horse or pony is IR.
• RED MINERAL SALT BLOCKS are typically very high in iron and the trace minerals in them are not specifically formulated for horses. They are intended for cattle.
• SOY should only be fed in small amounts & cautiously as researchers have identified that the isoflavones act as potent anti-thyroid agents, and are capable of suppressing thyroid function, and causing or worsening hypothyroidism in humans.
• SULFA and trimethoprim-sulfa combinations have the potential to increase insulin secretion in other species. This has not been studied in horses. In humans, the complication of increased insulin most likely occurs with kidney disease. Since it is now known that insulin itself can trigger laminitis (mechanism not known, but it makes blood hypercoagulable in humans - prone to clotting), caution is indicated with sulfas. For list of sulfa drugs see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfa_drug.
• VACCINATIONS should be discussed with your veterinarian to assess risks of the actual diseases in your area and in your particular situation. When given, only give one at a time, spacing them out 2-3 weeks apart. A number of these horses seem very sensitive to vaccinations.
• VITAMIN C is a powerful antioxidant but it enhances iron absorption and many IR horses are already iron overloaded.
• WILD YAM powder is estrogenic and will increase symptoms of estrus.
• YUCCA has a corticosteroid effect and the Yucca saponins can induce IR. Yucca may also be irritating to the stomach lining.
• XYLAZINE should be avoided because it causes elevated blood sugar.


More at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top