Would it be fairer to my horse to sell him ?

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littlen

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It's breaking my heart but as I feel as though I can do no right with him and he would be better off with someone more experienced!

I bought him as dangerous and unrideable and with numerous health problems. He has a touch of laminitis and it has taken me a year to work out a routine for him but I am failing miserably.
I have brought him into work but due to a lack of grazing he dropped alot of weight. He looked terrible and I feel so ashamed comparing him to other horses on the yard. He is also the bottom link in the herd and is always getting kicks and bite marks which dosent help.
I have strugged with his weight since winter and he has been on unlimited haylage, conditioning cubes, chaff, oil and sugarbeet since winter. He still looks ribby and scrawny.
He has had a few months off work and has had a vet,physio and dentist check which all showed nothing, vet commented it was proberbly lack of grazing and being a poor doer.

In the past few weeks he has gained a little weight but has literally no topline. His hip bones stick out and you can see 4 ribs ish, he has a scrawny neck and prominany withers yet also has a bloated stomach.
My instructor says I need to work his topline but he drops weight so easily I'm
terrified of working him properly. I have tried hill work etc which didn't work.
Is there a way of building topline easily? I think he wouldn't look so bad if he had muscle?
Can horses just not build topline no matter what?

Where am I going wrong here? Should I sell him to someone more knowedable who might be able to offer him more?
He is a lovely kind talented horse but is very challenging. He literally shakes when around strangers (comes running to me though and will rest on me
to sleep) He is not an easy ride at all and has a numer of health problems (previous laminitis, mud fever, allergies meaning he can't be vaccinated and he is also allergic to flies and comes out in hives if he comes into contact with them. He also weaves and is very excitable and is bullied in all herds so can only be turned out with small unshod ponies (the reason he is in a field with limited grazing as the ponies all can't have lush grass and he can't hold himself with the bigger ones)

At the moment he is in at night with ad lib haylage and isnfed twice a day on the chaff,speedibeet,cubes and oil. This was on advice of a nutritionist and it was introduced very carefully as I know it's not a conventional diet for a lami horse, but he has shown no signs for over a year.
What about pink powder has anyone tried this?

Would I have a hope in hell of findng a home for a horse like this? He is manageable and is only 12 so I couldn't Pts, but I am not sure what to do next. I am also sick of the bitching and comments from others on the yard, I just want a healthy conditioned horse I can enjoy. I love him to bits and I would keep him even if he could never be ridden again, but it's frustrating as he is so willng and talented yet I daren't take him places as e looks so undermuscled and weak. I spend a fortune feeding him only the best but am not seeing results as quickly as I would have liked!

I know this is a winging feeling sorry for myself post but I am just exhausted with him at the moment and don't know where to turn to next for help. I just want him a healthy condition.
If anyone has any thoughts please feel free to tell me honestly!
 
Bless - sending you a big hug.

He sounds like a very nervous horse, which is probably why he can't put weight on. To be honest I think you would be very lucky to sell him in this market. Is there any way of moving yards to one where they have individual turnout, or smaller herds so he isn't getting bullied so much. Don't take any notice of nasty comments at your yard. You are checking with vets, dentists and instructors. What more can you do! Ask your instructor HOW you should get the top line. Perhaps ring a few feed companies to ask how to feed your horse. They always have a nutritionalist who can advise.. Keep your chin up.xx
 
I feel very sorry for you :(

Don't worry about the bitching, they're not worth it.

Have you got any chance of finding a different yard that could accommdate his needs better. Maybe get him his own paddock with better grass, on his own or with a companion?

When it comes to feeding, some topline cubes might help, my laminitic pony is on them and it doesn't seem to hurt him.

Lunging would probably help, if he can manage that. Also, finding an experienced person to help you would be a good idea but don't sell him unless you have to. It sounds like he loves you.

Good Luck and keep us posted :D
 
Why would you sell? You sound like a fabulous caring owner who is doing their best for your horse.

I would consider a yard with 24/7 turn out as he weaves and gentle exercise to build him up: keep talking to your vet and the nutritionist and give it time. These issues will not be solved overnight, but you sound like you love your boy and he loves you.
 
If you don't want to persevere with him, then the only fair and kind option is to have him PTS, thereby absolutely ensuring his future. I would hate to hear he was passed from pillar to post by people thinking they can sort him and they cannot :(
 
No, it sounds as though he trusts you, which for an anxious horse is very important. I wonder why the nutritionist suggested that you feed him chaff? Unless this is alfalfa chaff it will be empty calories. Could you replace it with either alfalfa or dried grass?
Several people have found pink powder to be very useful. As he is such an allergic horse, I wonder if he could be allergic/sensitive to feed. Could you do an elimination test to find this out? I realise that you might be a bit wary of this, if you feel that you have got his feed right but it could be well worth a try. I have had horses which have been unable to eat a variety of feeds and they have been very nervous in their behaviour until their diet has been sorted out.
I, too, would be looking for another yard where he could be out 24/7 with a calm gentle companion of about his own size, which would help to reassure him.
 
Thanks everyone.

This is the third yard he has been on and is better than the last 2 so I've stuck there. The yo is nice and has tried to help offering my a field of my own full of grass for him. The problem is he stresses very badly on his own and paces all day . Nobody will lend me a companion as there horses are all fat or laminitic and they understandably don't want them on lush grazing. The only horse I could use is a big tb which picks on him
and I feel that's the last thing I need. Electric tape is useless as he just paces that too.

The reason I bring him in at night is so I can make sure he is getting the haylage without it being pinched by the others and I can monitor what he eats. He does weave so I try to keep him busy.

I don't want to sell him in an ideal world. It's just I feel as though I'm not doing enough for him as I read threads here and hear stories of people buying rescue horses and turnig them around in months so they look fab. Well two years in mine still looks cr*p. Logically I know it would be impossible to sell him and he would be passed about, and I did promise myself this home would be his last (he has had 10 homes in 9 years, I have had him sinc 9 when I found him...he was only meant to be a quick project and I never saw myself keeping him! Strange how things happen!)

he is fed baileys number four conditioning cubes, hi fi original, vegetable oil and sugarbeet twice a day. Is there something else I could try and add?

Thanks again everyone. I have tried to egnore those at the yard but he whispers of 'emaciated' and 'scrawny and undermuscled' are hard to block out. I acually had my vet look at him and the vet said he was not emaciated at all he just needs more condition?
He has a healthy shiney coat etc and has plenty of energy still!
 
No, it wouldn't be fair to sell this horse. It sounds like he really trusts you and would struggle with the upheaval. It also would not be fair to whoever bought him as they will be hoping to get a healthy, enjoyable horse and instead they will get this horse with his problems, thus coming around to being unfair on the horse again when he gets passed on.

If you are enjoying him, keep him. If you are not, PTS is a fairer and more realistic option than selling.
 
Oh sorry forgot to say I could have him out 24/7 zo I could make sure he is eating. Would he be better off out?

I'm not sure about the chaff.. Alfa a and alfa a oil sent him loopy so we switched to hi fi and so far so good behaviour wise. I have always fed him a chaff to stop him bolting his feed and make him chew it! Is it a waste of time?
 
Oh bless you, you really are stuggleing arn't you?

You love him and he loves and trusts you, you certainly deserve to have fun and good times together, not stress and worry.

How was he on the other two yards? Did he have better condition, were you unhappy with him then? Horses drop their weight like nobodys business when they are stressed and unhappy. However, if their world is a perfect place they can become as fat as pigs in muck on nothing!!

If there's not a medical problem or an underlying cause and if you havn't already, I'd suggest you should take another look at his enviroment and be honest about it. Even though you really like and appreciate the YO and her help, it maybe not the best place for him to flourish?

I wish you the best of luck and hope you find an ansew very soon.:)
 
I bought a very underweight horse years ago that I reckon was kept scrawny for a reason. I tried every feed going to try and put weight on her. Nothing changed until I changed yards to one with good grazing. She flourished. She was a stressy TB and I have to be honest, although she remained sweet, once she did put condition on she became a nightmare to ride.
 
Hugs for you.

I would agree with getting more nutritional advice, all of the main suppliers have advicelines. Ok so they will mostly talk about their own products but can give really good general advice too.

My TB does poorly during the winter and can drop a lot of weight this winter I had him (and two other similar condition TB's) on my yard on boiled barley. It has worked marevellously without heating him up (which Alfa-oil has done in the past).

I agree with the posts about your horses anxious disposition, that could cause his condition too, just as highly strung people can burn off loads of caolries fidgetting so can horses.

Good luck, it sounds like you are the best tihng that happened to him and you have formed a good bond together. Ignore people's comments when they don't know the truth, ironic that their horses have the opposite issue from yours but they choose to judge you anyway!

A knowledgable horsey person would see your efforts and the truth of poor doers not find a reason to bi**h.
 
littlen said:
Oh sorry forgot to say I could have him out 24/7 zo I could make sure he is eating. Would he be better off out?

I'm not sure about the chaff.. Alfa a and alfa a oil sent him loopy so we switched to hi fi and so far so good behaviour wise. I have always fed him a chaff to stop him bolting his feed and make him chew it! Is it a waste of time?
Click to expand...

Hi-fi has some alfalfa in it, so if I were you I would change to dried grass, Readi-grass is dried rye grass, so as he has been laminitic, Graze-on would probably be better for him. Fibre certainly isn't a waste of time but hi-fi is pretty low calorie, so could usefully be replaced in this horse's diet. Obviously I don't know the quantities that you are feeding but having re-read your OP, it really sounds to me as though he is fretting the weight off, this could well be an effect of the relatively small amount of alfalfa in the Hi-fi. Sorry to go on about it but I know from bitter experience what a difference feed allergies can make to a horse.
 
give dodson and horrell a call about his feed - they have a very helpful advice line and may have heard it all before so will be able to help

keep us updated on progress
 
Could you afford to take on a rescue horse as a companion so that they could graze out together? Even if you then moved yards the companion, and therefore security, would then move with you...
 
Depending on how much money is an issue, you could try a feed balancer supplement? They are expensive but they are also very good.

Perhaps try a topline feed, plus a balancer such as Bluechip or Bailey's Outshine. I have seen very good results with both, but often one will work and the other won't (don't know why!) so might be an idea to try one, and if you don't get results, try another.

Linseed is fab for making them 'look' better. You could also replace the hi-fi with Alfa-A+Oil which has a higher calorie content, and so will give your boy more for the amount of bulk he's eating. I've seen good results with Pink Powder, but also a couple it hasn't done anything for, so might be worth a try?

Please don't give up on him. He sounds like he will be worth it, and he has gained your trust which is something you cannot put a price on. As honey said, perhaps look into adopting a rescue horse, something that could be a companion and that it would be good on lush grass?

Good luck, you sound like you're doing really well though.
 
Call Winergy.

My friend bought a horse that was a hatrack a few years ago. We had him on pretty much the same diet as you and although he picked up he wasn't great and had no topline. Someone suggested Winergy. Within a month he looked completly different! He has topline and no boney bits. Another girl up the yard tried it and had the same results.

It isn't cheap, but then it is a complete feed and you don't give anything else with it.
 
I would try and have him out 24/7. Can he be in his own paddock with other horses/ponies on either side so he won't feel alone. Please try Spillers Lay Off cubes - don't be put off by what it says on the bag! Alot of professionals event and race their horses on them. They are basically horse and pony nuts with loads of extra vitamins and minerals. My laminitic horse and my TBX who is allergic to EVERYTHING are both on them and look fantastic and behave very calmly. You have to be careful not to be feeding too much food that will increase his energy levels thus aggravating the nervous behaviour. I would also try lots of long, low lunging maybe with a balancing rein or something similar. Good luck - I am sure you will succeed!
 
can he be turned out alone as hes still being bullied and needs grazing and haylage without the worry of others.you sound a good owner and have his best interests at heart.i would recommend pink powder but like you would not expect him to work hard if hes underweight.the turnout is priority really especially if hes at the bottom of the herd hierarchy.
 
some really good advice on here - just a couple of other ideas as well - in my experience, stressy horses take a very long time to settle down in new environments so you might well be better off perserving so that he really starts to trust his surroundings. If you have had to move him 3 times in 2 years, then that could well be contributing to his stress (not having a go, I appreciate you had valid reasons). If you could get him to live out then that would help - any chance he could come in to eat? you point out that you are in a catch 22 as need something quiet that will benefit from the good grazing - what if he had a "set" of companions, ie. ponies could be changed over so they aren't 24 7 = again I do appreciate that that is time consuming. Another option could be to maybe try something like a companion from say Heros or similiar or put out an advert looking for something that needs resucitating? and grass? I "think" you said your boy was a TB and they can be quite hard to get muscle on, particularly if they have never been muscled correctly. Review your feeding regime then put him on a work routine and stick to it. Finally (!) if he is stressy and worries easily - have you had him checked for ulcers which would also cause weight to come off. I think you have put so much in and covered so much ground that you must be near to finding a resolution and you have obviously succesfully created a fantastic bond.
 
I would get a second opinion from a different Vet. Has he been scoped for ulcers, or blood tests for tapeworm?. Is he still suffering from laminitis, in pain etc. All can lead to a stressy, underweight horse.
 
Thankyou everyone some great advice on this thread :)

At the moment he is turned out with two small ponies on the bare paddock. He is very stressy and when I take him away he paces and weaves and if I turn him out alone he paces and shouts and I worry this is worse for him than being out on a bare paddock? He is settled with them and grazes/sleeps with them, but I still find he comes in with hoof marks and teeth marks regulally. I dont know whether this is normal in a herd or not but it happens no matter what he is turned out with (I have tried small groups, large groups, mares, geldings, oldies, you name it!)
I would love to take on a companion, unfortunatley I dont have the finances for another (currently trying to get into vet school so no chance for at least 10 years!) I already pay a fortune for him and couldnt afford a second :(

The thing about the Hi-fi is interesting. I always thought of it as a feed bulkner (is that a word lol) and didnt realise it could cause problems. I have been at the feed shop today and the man reccomended spillers conditioning cubes alongside conditioning fibre?
I dont know yet though as I hate changing his diet too often.

At the moment he isnt really in any work. I sometimes hack him once a week. A friend has suggested lunging in side reins to build muscle but will this actually work on an underweight horse? Wont it just cause him to loose more weight?

I have tried feed balancers previously, including baileys lo cal and also one by blue chip and didnt notice any difference to his weight or condition.

So would a diet of Spillers conditioning cubes, conditioning fibre, oil and sugarbeet be a good idea or a bad one?
What about alfa A oil, although im wary of alfa as it sent him loopy last time?!

I dont want to give up on him. Especially not after today when he galloped over to me and proceeded to lick my face and eat my hair. Its such a shame as he is gorgeous and with some weight on him I think he would do fantastic showing, he has lovely flowing paces and a fab jump. I just wouldnt dare take him in the condition he is, especially as most show horses are very well covered! Maybe next year...

I am now off to reserach winergy and pink powder. I just wish I could find something certain to work as I have wasted so much money on rubbish feeds that dont do anything like they claim!
 
Sorry cross posted, he has been scoped for ulcers. Worm counted. Blood tested. Back checked, seen by 2 different dentists.
Our vets is a big company so each time a different vet could be sent, I would say he has been seen by 3 or so all who havnt really helped apart from rule out medical issues?
Vet has said it proberbly isnt the best idea to stick him on lush grass, but when he did have laminitis when I got him he only had it mildly and it was caught early. Still makes me worry though.

I could bring him in to be fed and then put him back out, I did try that but it was so time consuming waiting around for him to eat haynets and I was spending most of my day at the yard!

The options are turn him out alone or turn him out on bare paddock with companions. Alone he stresses, with company and he gets nothing to graze on. Unfortunatley others at the yard are not very helpful and nobody would allow me to put there horse with him, leaving me in a bit of a catch 22 situation.
He is on the best quality haylage I can buy at night and I am stuffing him with it so at least he has something on his stomach!

He is very stressy and hates changes in routine. I try to keep everything exactly right at all times and he has settled well, I am loathed to move him again as I will be back to square one and I doubt I will find a yard that will be any better :(
 
We feed our old cob mare, who used to be a very good doer but now struggles to keep weight on, on soaked grass pellets mixed with dried grass. This is easy for her to digest and really helped her to regain her weight after some very wet weather last summer. I would recommend a similar diet for virtually any horse as there is very little there that could upset anything.
 
The trouble with work and being underweight is that they need fat to convert to muscle. He wouldn't be able to form proper muscles unless he's able to use the energy in his feed to convert to muscle, and that won't happen if he's underweight.

You could put him out in the field on his own, with lots of food, and ignore the pacing and shouting. Possibly keep an eye on him from a place he can't see you? I've looked after stressy horses before and found they quickly settle when they can't see anyone to play to!!

Of course, if he does something more than pacing and shouting, or doesn't settle in a reasonable amount of time then call it a day, but it might be worth a try?
 
I could try it and will see what happens.

I have put him out on his own before and he has settled after an hour or two of shouting and pacing, but I am worried about him being out alone all of the time as I dont want him to be bullied the next time he goes in the herd if that makes sense?
He is still definatley bottom of the pecking order but at least he is accepted, if I move him on his own and move him back wont he have to start again?

that sounds stupid now ive read it back...
 
go with the winergy feed all mine are on it, but I do have the low energy feed, as I'm not a great believer of putting weight on fast. Could you put out several small heaps of hay or haylege if he's out on his own, so if he does pace up and down he will take a mouthfull as he goes by. I did that with a fretfull TB many years ago, he did trash some of it, but would snash up hay when he walked by and it took 18 months for him to relax and then I bought my sow who had 12 piglets and he was in seventh heaven.:):):):):)
 
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