Would it be possible to find a horse in Ireland sold from the UK without my consent?

[catembi]

I will try to shorten this tale of woe to its bare bones... I bought a horse unseen from Ireland. She turned out not to be suitable. She went to livery 200 miles away in the UK with a former friend who was going to bring her on & sell her. I was paying the livery. I offered her to him at a mates rates price. He offered her to his housemate on my behalf at the same price. I was v annoyed, but went with it to avoid paying more livery. The housemate started paying livery. He then wanted to pay me for the horse in instalments. The option at the time was to agree, go and get the horse (expensive as no transport at the time) or start paying livery again. I was paid about half. There is an agreement. He then had a series of personal crises, & the horse went on loan to someone. I pursued him for payment & he said that the loaner would like to buy. I waited, and waited...then enquired & he had sold her a few months ago & pocketed the money, & she has gone back to Ireland. He agreed to pay me the o/s balance of £1,250. I agreed on £50/month to be kind. Today I got another Jeremy Kyle type message saying that he has applied for bankruptcy, he is moving to America, he is deleting all his social media accounts & pretty much that I can go and (whatever) myself.

There is a huuuuuuuuge long messenger thread, about 16 months' worth, documenting the whole mess, plus the agreement. Is it going to be worth my trying to track the horse down & reclaiming her? Or do I try to learn from this & choose my friends more carefully? The former friend has transpired to be the most awful liar & cheat, but unfortunately as an Aspie I tend to take what people say at face value. It takes me a loooooong while to work out that people are liable to screw me over, & by that time, it's too late.

Please don't comment just to tell me that I'm stupid - believe me, I know that!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wouldn't believe a word of the bankruptcy/America tale and would go to small claims court to get the rest of your money.

 

[ihatework]

You didn’t want the horse in the first place, what good would reclaiming her do now?

Id chalk it up to a dumb thing to do and learn from it. But I might be inclined to open up small claims procedure just in case

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh no, poor you. Is this Summer? Would you really want her back though, even if you could find her?

 

[palo1]

I will try to shorten this tale of woe to its bare bones... I bought a horse unseen from Ireland. She turned out not to be suitable. She went to livery 200 miles away in the UK with a former friend who was going to bring her on & sell her. I was paying the livery. I offered her to him at a mates rates price. He offered her to his housemate on my behalf at the same price. I was v annoyed, but went with it to avoid paying more livery. The housemate started paying livery. He then wanted to pay me for the horse in instalments. The option at the time was to agree, go and get the horse (expensive as no transport at the time) or start paying livery again. I was paid about half. There is an agreement. He then had a series of personal crises, & the horse went on loan to someone. I pursued him for payment & he said that the loaner would like to buy. I waited, and waited...then enquired & he had sold her a few months ago & pocketed the money, & she has gone back to Ireland. He agreed to pay me the o/s balance of £1,250. I agreed on £50/month to be kind. Today I got another Jeremy Kyle type message saying that he has applied for bankruptcy, he is moving to America, he is deleting all his social media accounts & pretty much that I can go and (whatever) myself.

There is a huuuuuuuuge long messenger thread, about 16 months' worth, documenting the whole mess, plus the agreement. Is it going to be worth my trying to track the horse down & reclaiming her? Or do I try to learn from this & choose my friends more carefully? The former friend has transpired to be the most awful liar & cheat, but unfortunately as an Aspie I tend to take what people say at face value. It takes me a loooooong while to work out that people are liable to screw me over, & by that time, it's too late.

Please don't comment just to tell me that I'm stupid - believe me, I know that!

Please don't feel badly about not reading your ex-friend's integrity accurately! It happens to the best of us and is particularly difficult if you have ASD. I hate to think of you beating yourself up mentally because some total arse has acted appallingly. You might have some luck in the small claims court - I certainly wouldn't believe anything you have been told by this person. Chalk it up to experience but don't blame yourself or feel stupid about it; con-men are clever little scumbags.

 

[catembi]

I wouldn’t want her back, but she was sold on without good title so I would want to be paid the balance. Yes it’s Summer. Nightmare from beginning to end.

 

[ElleSkywalker]

I very much doubt shes in Ireland, he has probably said that to make you give up as a bad job as you wont pay to transport her back.

Are you on trace my horse on Facebook? If so contact Alison the admin and ask her advice on of you can do a post to identify where she is now and who has bought her, most likely in good faith. At least then you will know if she has found a good home?

And ditto the bankruptcy America thing. Do you really think Trump will let a person declared bankrupt in to the US?

ETA that all sound very cross of me but I am angry on your behalf rather than at you, horrible situation and I hope you can get some closure either financially or knowing that Summer is safe

 

[Michen]

I feel so sorry for the horse in all this tbh. She had physical and mental issues IIRC. I'd write off the 1k ish unless you are prepared to take the horse back and secure her future.

 

[J&S]

deleted

 

[oldie48]

Best way of finding her would be via her passport it she has been re-registered. If you were the registered owner you would have been required to sign her over, if someone else did that, then surely it's fraud. Worth a try?

 

[Shilasdair]

You are not stupid - you trust people to the point where they prove themselves untrustworthy.
If I were you, I'd
1. Disconnect entirely from your former 'friend' and his circle.
2. Investigate the cost of small claims court to recover the £1250.
3. At the same time, I'd mentally write off the £1250 and distance myself emotionally from the whole thing.

Good luck.

 

[Roxylola]

I dont think you'll find or recover your horse and for that matter I doubt you'd want her back really. Your issue is with the person who owes you money. I'd certainly bung that through small claims, you've nothing to lose there - if they are genuinely moving to america that could cause Visa issues and if not you'll be able to recover the costs hopefully

 

[catembi]

Thank you, everyone. I think small claims would be the way to go. I do feel sorry for Summer, which was why I spent so much on vets, behaviouralist etc to see what was wrong with her. It did sound initially as if she was going to get a great hunting home out of it, which would have been fab for her as she was totally unaffectionate & loved to barge about jumping stuff, and I simply wasn't brave enough to handle her.

(I broke all contact with the ex friend a long time ago. He did a lot of fencing here & I really thought we were friends. He also helped me hack Summer. I was so excited to have a horsey friend as I am hopeless with friends. I found out from the housemate that his plan was to sell her for £7k, tell me he'd sold her for £2k and pocket the difference. I also sent Summer off into his care with full tack as she was xf bridle and I had two bridles, a single & a double. He stole all the reins and a breastplate (all new) and a book on b/f and one on the track system. **sighs** I am so careful with other people's stuff & would be horrified & replace it if I had lost or damaged anything.)

 

[sunnyone]

Look at the gov.uk website.
If he has genuinely been bankrupted you can check details, and if he has declared himself bankrupt then that's £680 he could have paid you instead ! Make sure you join any list of creditors.
Do not roll over without taking it further. Some people have rotten luck with finances but the America thing makes me smell a large rat.

 

[Roxylola]

Catembi, that's not you that's misread things, he sounds like a right conman

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Blummin heck catembi I’m sorry to hear this. I think ...painful though it is to say...I’d just let it go, take the financial hit and absolutely stop beating yourself up about this so called friend.
Life’s too short and precarious to hang onto this stress....and I believe in karma..he ll get what he deserves...

 

[SO1]

That is a lot of money to loose. I would persue it if I were you through small claims. He sounds like he is dishonest & possibly taking advantage of you & maybe even others if he is deleting his social media accounts others maybe in the same situation.

 

[Ish2020]

If she is in Ireland it would be impossible to find her. I live in Ireland they cannot even find missing horses .

 

[babymare]

My dear you are not the first to be took in by "friends" and you won't be last I'm afraid. There are some evil people out there so don't be hard on self. I would investigate the small claims route but I also think at some point you may have to draw a line under it and chalk it up to experience for your own sanity. Take care x

 

[PeterNatt]

You can make a claim on-line through the small claims court. Once you have a judgement in your favour you will need to get it enforced and the best way is to get it enforced is to get it referred to the High Court and then get the baliffs or sheriffs to enforce it and get the money out of him.

 

[Orangehorse]

Go through the small claims court. You might need a bit of help. Even if you don't get anything it will give you satisfaction to give him a fright!

I took a tradesman to the Small Claims and it wasn't quite as easy and straightforward as I was led to believe. You need some contact details like an address and email. I was told to send things by Recorded Delivery but I said they wouldn't get it as they were both out at work and the postman needs a signature, so I sent it by email as well. I was right too because 12 months later I received one of my letters back from the Post Office that my tradesman had not bothered to collect from the sorting office.

I did get a good chunk of money back though - and gave him a fright and he had to get his solicitor involved so it was worth it.

 

[SusieT]

what a tool.
I would definitely pursue through small claims if it wasnt going to cost a fortune- both to make the point and also to see if you can reclaim it - how annoying.
I'm sure if you did enough digging you could find her - if you know her reg name you could find out whre she is and ask on local horsey fb probably, but at this stage I'd imagine its the money you want rather than the horse.

 

[ycbm]

She has been part paid for. My understanding is that recalling her in that situation is not possible unless your agreement says that title only passes when payment has been made in full.

Even if it does, it would be easier to chase them for the money than to reclaim the horse, who will quickly eat the £1250 you are owed in transport and keep costs.

Small claims court seems the way to go if you have a current address for them. Even if they never pay, they will then have a CCJ recorded against them which will make life difficult for them and might warn others off dealing with them.

.

 

[stormox]

You can pm me details of horse if you like and I will see if I can find anything. I am in Ireland.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Sorry but all's I can think is poor horse. If you don't want her back and can't do any better for her than her current situation I'd move on.

 

[Cortez]

Is the horse microchipped?

 

[eahotson]

Thank you, everyone. I think small claims would be the way to go. I do feel sorry for Summer, which was why I spent so much on vets, behaviouralist etc to see what was wrong with her. It did sound initially as if she was going to get a great hunting home out of it, which would have been fab for her as she was totally unaffectionate & loved to barge about jumping stuff, and I simply wasn't brave enough to handle her.

(I broke all contact with the ex friend a long time ago. He did a lot of fencing here & I really thought we were friends. He also helped me hack Summer. I was so excited to have a horsey friend as I am hopeless with friends. I found out from the housemate that his plan was to sell her for £7k, tell me he'd sold her for £2k and pocket the difference. I also sent Summer off into his care with full tack as she was xf bridle and I had two bridles, a single & a double. He stole all the reins and a breastplate (all new) and a book on b/f and one on the track system. **sighs** I am so careful with other people's stuff & would be horrified & replace it if I had lost or damaged anything.)

So sorry for you and horse.Words fail me about the behaviour of your "friend".

 

[Lois Lame]

I wouldn't believe a word of the bankruptcy/America tale and would go to small claims court to get the rest of your money.

Good thinking. It never occurred to me that this was probably a porky. (Can lies be called porkies in the UK?)

Whatever happens, catembi, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Myloubylou]

Is it not a criminal matter? He didn’t fully own the horse when he sold her. You had an agreement on price so he owes you that.

it’s not fraud it’s theft

 

[ycbm]

Is it not a criminal matter? He didn’t fully own the horse when he sold her. You had an agreement on price so he owes you that.

it’s not fraud it’s theft

No this one is definitely a civil debt. An agreement was made to pay. some money was paid, the rest is owing. It's no different from using electricity then not paying your bill, you don't get arrested for it.

The law, last time I looked, was complicated on part payments. it used to be that unless the agreement said specifically that title does not pass until payment is made in full, that the horse is owned in full after the first payment and the rest is just a civil debt.

Payment for horses by instalments is a minefield of problems.

.