Would you be worried?

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Turks

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My 4 year old has gradually begun to get stroppy when I put the saddle on his back.

He has a skin condition which I have been treating and talking to vets about. It slightly runs in to the saddle area. He is fine to groom where the saddle goes. Doesn't seem to be very tickly but doesn't like me picking little scabby bits off! Clearly I need to get this skin problem sorted.

He's fine to girth (well - v. slight reaction) and mount. He works through his back fairly nicely so no big other warning signals.

I stuck a towel on his back and no reaction.

Gently popped saddle back on his back after he'd worked and he reacted so doesn't seem to be due to cold back.

Saddle might need to be altered. Was fitted approx 4 months ago.

I am poss going to turn him away in a couple of weeks so didn't want to have to get it re-fitted until I know for definite. Same re back specialist - if he's going to be turned away I'll deal with that issue if still there when he comes back in to work.

Turning away poss - due to pregnancy.

It's a synthetic saddle so not v. heavy and I don't throw it on him!

Occasionally he stumbles a little behind. Nothing that has previously caused me to worry.

Any ideas appreciated. Thanks muchly...
 
I wouldn't worry until you can clear up his skin condition, until then you can't know what if anything else is causing the problem.
 
If the skin condition is under the saddle you need to get this cleared up before workinghim further.

Must be terribly uncomfortable.
 
Thanks for this. Priority is to clear it up. Given that it doesn't appear to affect his work I'm loathed to turn him away so soon. I will discuss that with the vet but carry on quietly until then as he genuinely seems to enjoy his work.
 
Really?! Think he'll survive for a week or 2. I haven't got the cash to throw the saddler at him for just 2 weeks' work. If I was that worried I'd just turn him away sooner. Maybe I'm tight but...!
 
Interesting. Never heard of them! C - could you be more specific as haven't found anything on ebay after searching graphites 30c condition / skin / horse / allergy.... Thanks v. much.
 
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What is his reaction when you girth him?

You said: "Gently popped saddle back on his back after he'd worked and he reacted so doesn't seem to be due to cold back. " What was his reaction?

You say: "Occasionally he stumbles a little behind. Nothing that has previously caused me to worry. " Has the stumbling started recently, or has he always done it. Does he do that in any particular situation, for example in the school, going uphill, going downhill etc?

What do you feed him (product and quantity)?

Sarah
 
Hi FF,

His reaction was head up, ears back. Expect he would have tried to nip if he'd had a chance. He's playful but not a grumpy horse.

He falters perhaps rather than stumbles. Might be once or twice every 3 rides or so. He did it once when I bought him some 5-6 months ago. Nothing major though.

He's fed on Saracens Essential Balancer (think about 450g per day) and Saracens show pellets (approx 200g per day).

Nothing else other than grass and some cod liver oil if its kicking around. His grazing is good for this time of year.
 
He is four. What you do with him now will shape his attitude towards people and ridden work for the rest of his life. The priority should, without doubt, be on getting the skin condition completely cleared up and making sure his back is ok (if he has been bracing, he may need some physio) and saddle checked and only start his ridden work again when you know that he will not experience any discomfort from it.

To do anything else is not good husbandry in my honest opinion. I am sorry if it sounds harsh, but you have his future in your hands. A few weeks or even months is not going to ruin him...but carrying on the ridden work might.
 
yes really, I would not continue to tack up and ride a horse that indicates signs of discomfort,

if he is uncomfortable every time you put the saddle on when you sort everything out you will spend time convincing him it wont be uncomfortable at some point in the future and it is extra work you could have avoided. if he threw himself on the floor and kicked you etc when you tried to tack up you would listen-he is trying to tell you nicely it is best to listen IMO then you can continue on a good note not a bad one.
 
twiggy2 said:
yes really, I would not continue to tack up and ride a horse that indicates signs of discomfort,

if he is uncomfortable every time you put the saddle on when you sort everything out you will spend time convincing him it wont be uncomfortable at some point in the future and it is extra work you could have avoided. if he threw himself on the floor and kicked you etc when you tried to tack up you would listen-he is trying to tell you nicely it is best to listen IMO then you can continue on a good note not a bad one.
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I completely agree with this. My pony had an incorrectly fitted saddle before I bought him. This led to mounting issues, then bolting and finally catching. He was about to go to the meat man due to his issues as no one would buy him. I did and it took me 18 months and a lot of money to get him back to begin a "normal horse". If you could catch him, avoid being killed when tacking up and mounting, then if you got on without being kicked, controlled the bolt when you asked him to walk forward, he'd then work beautifully. Now he is very subtle in his signs of discomfort, but the second he shows any sign (he may turn to look at me when I put on his saddle, or shuffle when I get on) I get the saddler out and it always needs an adjustment. I assume he always started this subtly, but the more he was ignored the bigger his protest became.

Please listen to the advice given. Stop riding (or ride bareback) and get your saddle checked and a physio out. x
 
Thanks for all your advice. Its a very fair point about the association of tack with discomfort which could have more of an affect than I originally realised. Its also a fair point that some horses are very gentle and subtle about showing the difficulties they have. Those that shout loudest get listened to.

I have chatted to the vet today (friend) who is going to have a good look at him tomorrow and we'll come up with a plan.

I am being a bit selfish as I really don't want to give up riding him while preggers so carrying on while I can (and perhaps while he cannot).

See what tomorrow brings...
 
Been meaning to say many thanks for this Cptrayes and Twiggy2.

JillA - I did discuss the ulcers with the vet but they thought highly unlikely. I must study the link all the same. He's out 24/7, etc. Feed changes, minimal and gradual etc.

Vet has done a work up on him and thinks there is tension/stiffness near the SI/croup area rather than saddle but not very clear. We are trying a bute trial initially and new anti-bacterial wash for the skin condition. Vet thought best I work him through the trial to gauge it. I am only walking and trotting gently at mo and give him some grub when put saddle on which should build up a whole new association (it worked well the other day as a temp measure). Vet thought worth doing this for now to help with the diagnostics given that he is subtle with the stiffness etc so isn't (or doesn't appear) to be particularly in pain.

We will review in a week or so and if that doesn't work will probably turn away letting time, rest and grass do their best for him. I have a lot of faith in those 3.

Let me know if you are horrified by this (nicely please!) - I am prepared to reconsider!
 
Abler.com have a free omeprazole trial. The drug is very safe, the,same as Gastrogard, and effects usually show in 48 hours. I would do it anyway, you've nothing to lose.

If you can afford it, I would xray for kissing spines before turning away. I'm rehabbing one now so it's high on my agenda :) it would rule it out,or prevent you wasting the winter only to find the same in the spring. My xrays cost under 200

Is your vet aware of what mine told me, that Bute is ineffective for pain relief of a sacroiliac joint strain?

SI strain is also often a side effect of kissing spines and four is one of the key ages for it to show as they start being asked to work.
 
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cptrayes advice is good above.

if a stiff or lame horse comes sound on bute then you have a pain related issue but it can give false negatives, as in the horse stays stiff or lame but the issue can still be pain related-so a bute trial can be limited.

hopefully the bute trial will tell you what you need to know but view the results with an open mind-goodluck
 
cptrayes said:
Abler.com have a free omeprazole trial. The drug is very safe, the,same as Gastrogard, and effects usually show in 48 hours. I would do it anyway, you've nothing to lose.
Click to expand...

Good idea. The main difference between Gastroguard and omeprazole is that GG has a coating to prevent the drug being decayed in the acid environment of the stomach before it can do its job. So if you do give Omeprazole itself, it's always an idea the also give bicarbonate of soda, to reduce the acid.
 
cptrayes said:
Abler.com have a free omeprazole trial. The drug is very safe, the,same as Gastrogard, and effects usually show in 48 hours. I would do it anyway, you've nothing to lose.

If you can afford it, I would xray for kissing spines before turning away. I'm rehabbing one now so it's high on my agenda :) it would rule it out,or prevent you wasting the winter only to find the same in the spring. My xrays cost under 200

Is your vet aware of what mine told me, that Bute is ineffective for pain relief of a sacroiliac joint strain?

SI strain is also often a side effect of kissing spines and four is one of the key ages for it to show as they start being asked to work.
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Cptrayes - Thanks for this. I have done the poking and prodding ulcers test today and absolutely no reaction anywhere so I'm pretty happy to discount that one for now. I'm not really feeling any particular difference on the bute test. To my untrained eye (and to be fair this has been supported now by vet) it points towards SI area. He is pretty soft in his back when ridden. Will flex and work through his shoulders. Just needs to push through more from behind. I did v. light schooling today and he did seem to get better as the session went on (still just walk and trot). I think he has loosened up with more time on previous sessions as well. Didn't know that re Bute and sacroilliac. Well worth bearing in mind.

twiggy2 said:
cptrayes advice is good above.

if a stiff or lame horse comes sound on bute then you have a pain related issue but it can give false negatives, as in the horse stays stiff or lame but the issue can still be pain related-so a bute trial can be limited.

hopefully the bute trial will tell you what you need to know but view the results with an open mind-goodluck
Click to expand...

Twiggy2 - Fully appreciate what you say in terms of the dangers of assuming false negatives from bute trials thanks. As it stands its not giving me much!

JillA said:
Good idea. The main difference between Gastroguard and omeprazole is that GG has a coating to prevent the drug being decayed in the acid environment of the stomach before it can do its job. So if you do give Omeprazole itself, it's always an idea the also give bicarbonate of soda, to reduce the acid.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this JillA - always in the market for an economical alternative!

Two key things that I have failed to put on here so far but have discussed with vet - he's reluctant to strike off on left canter and consistently wants right. I have tried different approaches to it and another rider has had same problem on him. Not addressing this at mo but clearly a significant symptom. Other matter is - he is reluctant to have his off-hind picked up. He isn't brilliant with both hinds but more so that one.

I am feeling like a very bad mum now...! He does enjoy his "work" - honest!
 
Thinking outside the box a little - Conformationally is he correct, just wondering whether he could have a locking stifle, has he got a straight hind leg/weak hind quarter muscles? Young/big/weak horses can struggle with this and I have found often show difficulties with strike off etc, a bute trial probably won't show an improvement with this.
 
Hi B, he is a bit cow hocked. I thought his quarters looked fairly even & he was muscling up pretty well? Not sure what impact the cow hocks would have?
 
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