Would you breed from this mare?

HorseMaid

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My friend has a beautiful little Connie x TB mare who is, I think, 11 or 12 this year. She has had her for 4 years now, and was bought dirt cheap with the knowledge that she had a diagnosis of hock arthritis. This has been managed with injections, and an x-ray last year showed that the offending joint had just about fused, but that the other hock had signs of arthritis too. Throughout this time mare has been used as a happy hacker and has been great for this job. Apart from her random biting habit she has been a great horse to have and she literally owes my friend nothing, she has had lots of fun with her.

Last year she came up slightly lame, seemingly from a shoulder. Seen by vet and friend made decision to rest and see, mare has had the winter off and just coming gently back into work now. Friend thinks the lameness might just be showing again and is planning a vet visit for a full workup. If the worst happens, friend is wondering if it would be viable to breed from this mare. She is well put together and a desirable type.

Now I would always say that you shouldn't breed from an unsound mare in case any issues are hereditary, BUT what we know about this mare's history leads me to wonder whether she was pushed too far too young which would have led to her issues. For example, her previous owner told my friend that she did a full seasons hunting in Galway as a 3 year old (!), and that they had plans for her to be a showjumper. It seems to me that she was trained and schooled very hard as a 4/5 year old which had led to these later issues, being diagnosed with arthritis at age 6 ish? After which she was basically written off and came to my friend. If you take her into a school she objects immediately and starts bucking, she clearly doesn't like it so we have never done it. She has got signs of a hard life with various scars and patches of white from ill fitting tack which were there when she came to us.

So pending vet visit, what would you do? Obviously friend would go with vet advice but if she is likely to remain unsound for riding, is a foal a viable option?
 

CatInTheSaddle

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I would not. I generally advise against "hobby" breeding regardless, even if the mare is sound: the time, trouble, expense and potential heartbreak is not something I would recommend to a friend unless they were completely sure what they were in for (of course your friend may be sure! But in that case, the soundness issues preclude the choice for me.)
 

Roxylola

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The thing is, there are horses who don't develop arthritis with that sort of start, they go on to be showjumpers etc so even though without that start her arthritis might have been less I'd argue she is still predisposed to it and therefore could be genetic. Also as mentioned the fact that she'd be uncomfortable carrying a foal would put me off
 

eggs

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It's a no from me too. I have bred a few foals from my old mare after she had a field injury but she was sound with good confirmation and bloodlines, had show jumped to Foxhunter and was graded into the studbook. It costs a lot of money to get a foal onto the ground and you have no guarantee that you will get want you want.
 

tristar

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a lot of connie types have what look like poor rear ends and dubious hocks, that i would not expect to stand up to a lot of work, and would 100 per cent not breed from, sound or otherwise

however have not seen photo of your mares confo
 
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a lot of connie types have what look like poor rear ends and dubious hocks, that i would not expect to stand up to a lot of work, and would 100 per cent not breed from, sound or otherwise

however have not seen photo of your mares confo

I don't agree with this about Connie's sorry. Although with this mares issues I wouldn't breed from her either.
 

tristar

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I don't agree with this about Connie's sorry. Although with this mares issues I wouldn't breed from her either.

i have looked extensively at connie types, not necessarily pure bred, for outcrossing and rejected the idea

it took many years to breed in the strength and conformation to carry the weight behind


there is a mare i would consider, but she is a former champion at horse of the year, and not available
 

HorseMaid

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Absolutely not. The strain of carrying a foal may well exacerbate her arthritis. Why does your friend want a foal?

I think it was just a musing more than anything. She spent many years working on a stud farm so knows the in and outs. I think she is mulling things over as potentially, we are looking at retirement and the mare is still young.
 
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i have looked extensively at connie types, not necessarily pure bred, for outcrossing and rejected the idea

it took many years to breed in the strength and conformation to carry the weight behind


there is a mare i would consider, but she is a former champion at horse of the year, and not available

I used to work for a showjumping trainer/owner all the juniors had either Connie's of Connie X's none had weak hind ends as you suggest and all would be capable of pure dressage/eventing. A few we hunted in Ireland before bringing them over.
 

Mrs. Jingle

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I was offered the free use of a very nice ID stallion for my now retired mare. She is coming 22 but has bred a foal or two back in the day before she came to me. She has sweet itch that I can mange very well, I know from her first owner/breeder she has had it since a 2 year old. For that reason alone I would never breed from her, she is definitely not needed in the gene pool of Irish horses, nor would I want to put the old girl through carrying a foal anyway.

She worked hard as a hunt hireling before she came to me, and gave me several years of very happy riding, why would I not let her peacefully live out her life in happy retirement without me adding to the risk to her health, never mind any foal with her genetics!
 

Leandy

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No, from this description, this is a horse with soundness issues from a young age and a repeated inability to come back into full work because of them. Even if she was worked intensively as a youngster she has clearly demonstrated she was not up to it. The ones to breed from are the ones which remained sound to continue on to a successful career (or possibly whose career was cut short by external accidental injury) not those which show an early inability to sustain the work. I completely understand why your friend likes the idea. Breeding one for yourself can be an interesting and satisfying thing to do, but this mare sounds not the best place to start.
 

Patterdale

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No!!
Also, I know you say the mare has good conformation, but if Connemaras have a fault it’s a tendency to weak and poor back end/hind limb conformation. They tend to be straight through the hock and steep in the croup and these are the types that get the hock arthritises/hind suspensories etc that the breed is becoming more prone to. As soon as I read ‘Connie’ I knew it would be back end lameness.

Have a good look at her conformation with this info and fresh eyes and think again.
 

HorseMaid

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I'm not an expert when it comes to conformation I will freely admit! I will be sewing the seed that it's probably not a good idea though, you've all made points that I hadn't considered!
 
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