Would you buy a horse you knew was ‘overpriced’ in these circumstances?

[Oldernewbie]

My situation is that I am mid fourties, recently retruned to riding having not really ridden since childhood.

Having two lessons a week (plus stable management sessions as I go) at a local highly regarded riding school, they also offer livery.

I have discussed with he RS owner my plan to purchase a Suitable horse in the new year and he has offered to come and view with me but obviously I dont want to drag him away from the school for too often or too long!

There is a horse trainer/dealer about 30 mins away from me who seems to be highly regarded (virtually all the feedback is good) however her horses are generally regarded to be overpriced, possibly by up to a few thousand. She does seem to keep them for 6+ months however and seems to be in no rush to move them on.

Now to be honest I actually dont mind paying a bit over the odds if it means I get a horse which has recieved a good amount of assessment and schooling as getting a suitable safe horse is very important to me, also its convenient and potentially I could try a few but am I being foolish in thinking her horses are actually going to be better than say a private seller?

Interested in peoples opinions!!

 

[ycbm]

A horse that has been schooled and assessed by the seller for several months is, imo, worth a considerable premium over one which is being sold on as quickly as the dealer can turn it over.

He horses won't necessarily be better than an honest private seller, but if you can write the rules that tell you when a private seller is honest, you'll make a fortune 😊. From a dealer, you have the cover of the Sale of Goods Act, which you don't have from a private buyer. And from the right dealer, with a good reputation, they have that reputation to maintain and will be wary of selling a horse to a buyer which it does not suit, even if it's a good horse.

In short, yes!

 

[millikins]

Agree with ycbm. Also, bear in mind that i the horse is right for you and you keep it for many years, the initial purchase price is neither here nor there.

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

I have just paid 'over-market' price for a horse that ticks 99% of my boxes. I have had 2 disastrous horse purchases before her that have severely dented my confidence and my bank balance and, if I don't get it right this time, I will probably give up horses. I bought her from an excellent professional seller (the term 'dealer' sounds diminishing in her case) who has taken time to assess her. She was within my budget but was on the higher side for price for horses of her type. HOWEVER, the right horse for me (or for you) surely has 'no price' - I hope she will turn out to be worth every single penny - and more. Good luck with your horse hunting.

 

[cobgoblin]

This dealer wouldn't be in Kent would she?

 

[Oldernewbie]

Hi Cob, no we are in the SW

 

[cobgoblin]

That's OK then 👍

 

[dixie]

Yes I would
It’s very difficult finding the right horse and a dealer who has taken the time the assess the horse is worth a premium imo.

 

[be positive]

If the seller is genuinely producing the type of horse you want then it could well be worth paying the extra, you get the best of both worlds, the protection of buying from a trader with the knowledge that it is in their best interests to get the match right, I have done much the same with a fair amount over the years and have always tried to get the correct buyer for the individual horse and will turn people away if I am not happy rather than sell, sometimes it means the horse stays longer than planned but it is worth it when the new owner is totally happy with the horse or pony, many remain in contact and we see them out and about if they stay locally.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would take the advice of the person who has volunteered to go to view with you. He will know which sellers are trustworthy and describe their horses honestly and which to avoid. he will be able to discuss the assessment and training that the horse has had. He may even be able to do a bit of price negotiating for you, as the seller will know him as well. Good luck!

 

[YorksG]

Any horse, or indeed anything, is worth what someone feels they want to pay for it. A good dealer who matches horses to buyers can put a premium on them.

 

[Red-1]

I don't think you can say they are over priced if she keeps them for 6 months and brings them on. A local yard to us charges £150 a week for schooling livery. That would cost you £3,900 + for 6 months of professional schooling. Plus then there is shoeing, vaccinations etc on top of that. Every dealer horse in a box being worked is a box that a schooling livery can't have.

In your position I would not buy from a dealer where there is a high turnover. Often they will be green imports from Ireland, and may have been in England for only a week- even the dealer doesn't know what problems there are!

This dealer sounds a sensible option, as would a private home where the owner has had the pleasure of bringing a horse on, so does not have to mark that work up (although obviously the horse will increase in value as it gets better). Also, most dealers will have some movement on price, but perhaps not as much as a private seller. I would check the seller and horse on Google and on the dodgy dealers site on Facebook.

I think in your position I would go with your instructor to this dealer, and as much as anything use it so the instructor can teach you how to view horses. That way, if there is not the right horse here, you will be able to scope out any future horses on your own, returning with the instructor another day to anything that you think is right for you. This is quite normal practice, but I would do this dealer first so you learn golden rules (such as don't get on before you have seen it ridden by someone else, see the horse in a stable, try the horse on the road etc).

Good luck!!!

 

[Clodagh]

No such thing as overpriced, if it is worth it to you for the cost then the price is right.

 

[Theocat]

It is worth weighing the "overpriced" comments against what the people saying that would normally pay! If these are all people who think £1500 is a fair price for a sound riding club type, then you can happily pay a few grand more than that and know that you haven't been ripped off - especially from a good dealer who takes time to get to know the horses.

 

[ew0855]

If we are talking Bristol, no. Extremely overpriced

 

[Oldernewbie]

Ah!!

 

[be positive]

If we are talking Bristol, no. Extremely overpriced

If it is who this clue suggests I would agree they are very overpriced, not all as described and may well be far greener than expected, I am in the SW and there are a couple of dealers that sound good on paper but are best avoided.

 

[ycbm]

If a horse sells, how can it be defined as over priced? It fetched its price, therefore it was worth its price on the day, at the time, to that buyer and certainly to the seller!

I have two friends who bought recently who would willingly have paid a very big premium to see sound local horses. As it was, it took each of them nearly a year to find a sound horse to buy. One bought at a premium of at least £2000 from a dealer for a green five year old that was smaller and much less experienced than she wanted. The other got lucky on Preloved.

Unless the dealer has a record for selling unsound or temperamental horses, I don't see what you have to lose by going to see them, if only as a benchmark for others.

 

[Orangehorse]

We used to buy from a dealer. The price was the price, it was a waste of time to try and negotiate. They had found the horse, bought it, kept it, ironed out minor ifs or buts, taken it out and about to some shows, maybe hunting and they were dealers trying to make a profit and a living. Some were better than others but they were always what they said.
Local reputation is vital.

 

[ew0855]

Longer answer;

If overpriced (by a few grand) but genuinally getting horse out and about, open to vet and and instructors, sound and local then yes, I'd knowingly pay a sizable premium (and have done so).

If overpriced (double the price of similiar horses, or even more), only really selling to novices who don't realise how much over the odds they are paying (goes quiet if more experienced buyer looks) then that feels wrong to me.

I don't know which dealer the other poster is considering looking at but am aware both of the above are around in the South West area.

Good luck with your hunt! Completely understand the temptation to up the budget if you see something sane and sound!

 

[gallopingby]

Difficult to know what 'overpriced' is. As already stated it costs a lot to keep a horse for six months/ a year and take out to competitions/shows etc and you should expect to pay for the fact the horse will behave and you'll be safe and happy riding it.

The problem at the moment seems to be that there are far too many poor quality unschooled horses about for sale very cheaply, people no longer have the knowledge they had to sort out the good from the bad and a 'cheap' horse seem to be almost disposable.
You should expect to get what you pay for and that includes a breaking/schooling cost of around £150 a week over around six months minimum plus the cost of breeding and keeping the horse initially - stud fees are anything from £400 up to £xxxx.

If you're happy with the horse, have ridden it a couple of times and seen it out and about its - worth to you - whatever you are prepared or can afford to pay in order to have a happy and stress free time.

 

[SpringArising]

Bear in mind that even though the dealer has had these horses for months, and 'assessed' them, s/he is a professional, and as such, what she determines as good/easy is NOT going to be the same as what you, as a beginner, would.

I would also add that a lot of the time, horses end up with dealers for a reason. Genuine PC/RC horses are like gold-dust and INCREDIBLY rarely wind up needing to be sold by a dealer.

 

[RoR_nut]

If the horse is right for you, you feel safe and it passes a vet then really as long as YOU are happy paying the price then yes I would buy even if there was a significant "Mark up"

Looking back I paid WAY over the market value for my ISH.... 2 weeks out of the field and very much an unknown quantity, but he was from a highly regarded dealer and passed the vetting. After the initial getting to know his quirks he has been one of, if not the best horse I have owned.

Good luck in your search

 

[Chuckieee]

One of my best horses was from a dealer. There were over 50 horses to choose from. I gave the dealer an honest description of my abilities and my aims/goals. Out of the 50, she selected one that she thought was a good match and she was 100% correct. She would not budge on price and on reflection, the horse’s price was fair.

With the benefit of hindsight, I’d have definitely paid a premium as it would have saved me a lot of bother time and petrol looking at rubbish that was not as described.

However there are good dealers and bad. If you are not confident in your ability to separate the wheat from the chaff then take a professional as buying horses can be an absolute mine field. Best of luck.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Bear in mind that even though the dealer has had these horses for months, and 'assessed' them, s/he is a professional, and as such, what she determines as good/easy is NOT going to be the same as what you, as a beginner, would.

I would also add that a lot of the time, horses end up with dealers for a reason. Genuine PC/RC horses are like gold-dust and INCREDIBLY rarely wind up needing to be sold by a dealer.

I agree that 'easy and straightforward' to a pro rider is not the same as easy to a beginner. The horse knows who is on its back. I think the only way you truly know if the horse is a good for nervous or novice riders is if it has been ridden by them. And a dealer may not have that info.

I am less certain that fantastic horses don't end up being sold by dealers though. I had a truly rare as hens teeth genuine child's pony. Unfortunately dozens of ponies are described as genuine child's ponies and if you are selling privately, buyers can't tell the genuinely golden minority from the not-as-described majority. She did sell in the end but it was not that easy.

 

[Oldernewbie]

Thank you to all who replied, lots of food for thought! I think my best apprach then is to brief the RS owner that I am happy to pay over the odds but only if horse fits the bill eg not too green/young etc nothing significant on full vetting etc. Have to say its a pretty terrifying situation buying a first horse!!

 

[gallopingby]

I think working out peoples perceptions of over the odds are very different. I horse that meets your requirement in age/schooling/type and has nothing SIGNIFICANT on vetting should meet your wish list. Remember vetting applies on the day only and a slight problem may be easily resolved IF everything else is OK. A lot will depend on the type the RS owner likes for example s/he may prefer a TB type whereas you might be happy on a cob therefore the perception of over the odds will be different and may indeed by reversed if the adviser preferred cobs! Good luck, hope you find a great match.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

If we are talking Bristol, no. Extremely overpriced

Agree overpriced, even her "bargain basement" was a helluva lot more than I could even have begun to look at, BUT someone I know (mature rider, re-starting) bought from there and she's been very happy with the horse, it did everything it said on the tin and she's out and enjoying it; having said that, she's not exactly short of a bob or two and was obviously happy to pay up and look sweet!

If I were OP, I'd be inclined, if possible, to try and find a reputable dealer if at all possible. They're like hens teeth to find, and its a question of knowing who to trust. What you really need is someone who's got a proven track record of sourcing good horses for people, and having the "eye" for what sort of horse will match up with what person. That is a real gift IMO, and personally (if I had the money) I'd be happy to pay a bit extra to have the reassurance of being able to return the horse if it proved unsuitable and the dealer taking an interest in their client until they're happy, especially if I was a first-time buyer. That's what good old-fashioned dealers used to do; find the best possible match for their client - a great pity that so many nowadays are as slippery as eels and will take advantage particularly of a novice. That is downright shameful!

IF this woman has a good reputation locally, and is a good reliable sort of person, then I would be inclined to see what they can do for you. As someone else has said, a dealers yard is a good place to go to with your instructor or savvy friend (make sure you DO take someone with you, don't go solo unless you're VERY sure of what your doing and even then I'd always want to have someone with me as two pairs of eyes are better than one). Oh and NEVER ever get on something you haven't seen ridden first. No exceptions, ever. And arrive 10 mins early as you might see it being lunged first to get the fizz out of it!

Good luck! This time of year is the best possible time to buy! I've just picked up a nice little mare that was sold in the spring for nearly £4000, I've just paid £1500 for her. So there ARE bargains to be had

Good luck!

 

[fruit_fly]

Yes i paid over for my first 'owned' horse, an irish 5 year old, from a dealer with a really good reputation but her horses certainly aren't cheap and there is no scope for bartering. 3 years on it hasn't gone smoothly for the whole time BUT she is what she was sold as - she has a lovely temperament, good confirmation, goes out and does everything I ask of her without too much fuss and most importantly is sound! So in the long run it was money well spent.

 

[w1bbler]

After an accident & complete loss of confidence I bought from the dealer I think you are talking about. Yes overpriced, yes absolutely everything I wanted from my new horse ☺
Her horses can still be quite green, but have been there long enough for their temperament to be known. Still need to have your eyes open & really trial the horse for what you want.