Would you buy an ex point to pointer?

[claire1976]

My sister is looking at buying a 9 yr old 16hh TB gelding who is actually quite nice but seemed cheap.
When she looked into his history it turned out he'd done one point to point race and fell!!
Not sure what the implications are of this?
Anyone any thoughts??

 

[TGM]

Depends totally on what I wanted to do with the horse, what my experience was, the actual merits of the horse itself etc. I know some ex pointers that are absolutely fantastic and others that are total nutters!

 

[dwi]

I used to ride a successful ex point to pointer who turned into a beautiful riding school horse and was easy to do in every way. One of the best horses I have ever ridden and was apparently sold for £100,000 at the peak of her career.

I would worry about why he had only done one race and whether he hurt himself when he fell. It might be nothing, depends if you have the experience to take the risk

 

[sevenoceans]

Got NH into P2P Gelding... absloute angel in every way (won 4 and Placed in many NH races in ireland) pants at P2P in Uk. I Had him 4 years, lovely tempermant, He's 17 hands of power (We hunts in snaffle) and I don't weigh very much! but he never put foot wrong.

 

[claire1976]

So sounds like he might be a good bet then?
I've ridden him in the school and on the road and my sister has tried him today. He was great in school, not too forward going, light movements and easy to manoevare around. On the road he seemed quite alert but I felt he could spook if he wanted too. He seems really nice but having no exp of ex P2P I was a bit concerned, seems like he might be a good buy at the price.

 

[LEC]

Our old pointer George was a gem - he is now 19 still going strong with a novice rider. George totally looks after his rider and has a great deal of self preservation and is incredibly sensible.

 

[seabiscuit]

Yes I would- but it is luck of the draw, you'll either have one that is an excellent general riding horse, or one that is not really suitable for anything but racing! But that is very rare, more often than not they adjust to new careers very easily.

I would thoroughly check out his history though, to check that he has not had long lay offs with injuries.Have you looked up his form on the racing post? What is its racing name? Most likely that he had a career in racing before going pointing.

 

[claire1976]

My sister ran the check on his history and could only find that he'd P2P'd but I suppose its possible he's raced. I might have a looksie.
His registered name is General Custer but don't know if he would have raced under that. Sire was Arctic Circle, Dam was Koi Corp out of Bulldozer.

 

[claire1976]

Any idea where I could find any more info in his history, whats the best websites to use?

 

[seabiscuit]

Cant find any record of him racing, but his racing name under rules was custodium king and he was unsold at 600 guineas at the Goffs sales in Ireland in 2001

 

[claire1976]

Where did you find that info, seems strange he was unsold at such a cheap price dont you think??

 

[seabiscuit]

I found it on the racing post website, by researching the dam and dam's progeny sale results...

He is not 'fashionably bred' and there are a lot of horses about with unfashionable breeding, and they simply do not attract the bids at sales like these where there are 100's of better bred horses available...that is my theory...so could be that someone just did not take a shine to the horse, not that there was something necessarily wrong with him!

Has the owner given you the names/numbers of all the past owners/trainers?

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Where did you find that info, seems strange he was unsold at such a cheap price dont you think??

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, the racing industry is full of cheap TB's, if they are naff on the track or bred from rubbish mares thats all they fetch!

 

[claire1976]

Well she's bought him now so he best be OK!!!
Not the best looking nag but seems nice natured and thats more important I suppose.

 

[vicijp]

The fact he fell wouldnt worry me, but 'refused to race, ran out first, remounted and fell 3rd' would.

 

[claire1976]

Oh dear- I didn't know that!??!!! I hope he's going to be OK, since he's only going to be used for hacking do you think that this is not such a huge problem?

 

[filly190]

An ex-pointer will (they usually are) educated out in the hunting field. They are be wonderful rides, well mannered and have done and seen a lot. Obviously schooling or lack or it makes them a different ride altogether. Riding one for the first time, compared to a well schooled horse, you feel that there is'nt much in the way of brakes or steering and quite often their mouth is spoilt.

All of this can be put right, their trick is distance and speed and so they are taught to switch off and relax into a long run,
not making them fizzy.

The open grass and desire to gallop is strong and this takes a lot of re-education. When you first get one, start with roads and tracks and avoid open spaces. Also hacking out with other horses in open spaces as the horse will want to race. With an ordinary saddle and the inexperience of pulling up, riding short you wont stand a chance of stopping it.

Enclosed, safe areas for a good long time, and then hacks out with a very steady, safe, controlled horse and you will find success. You have to be very sensible and know what you are doing.

You mentioned a fall, this happens all the time with racing, it's not the horses fault and does not mean it cant jump. When they teach them to jump, they school over hurdels, they gallop flat out, so the horse has no choice but to propel itself over. Hence the training for jumping is done!!.

Pointers are generally owned by the smaller yards and have more or a one to one with the staff.

The other thing with riding them is, you pull, they go faster, you switch your reins or move them, they go faster. You have to be quiet with your hands and hold them on the horses shoulders.
I would be careful, if that a full vetting to test heart and wind is essential. The rest is fixtures and fittings, but these horses can suffer hair line fractures etc.

If the horse is cheap and looks manageable, I would strongley suggest you spend good money on the vetting and I would have the legs ex-rayed! I know its expensive, but a cheap horse can turn into a very expensive one and knowing the knocks and bangs pointers get in training and racing, I would be prepared to loose my vetting money, rather than have a horse that could cause heart break and huge vets bills.

If you are going to go down this road, pointers are a different purchase to buying an ex race horse and I hope what I have mentioned above will give you some guidance.

Good luck, i really hope things go well for you.

 

[SillyMare]

Sometimes horses fall pointing because they are not really fast enough - if they are going flat out just to keep up they don't have power in hand to get them out of trouble and are more likley to get exhaused and fall.

Doesn't necessarily mean they won't be good jumpers once they have learned how to jump properly and when the fences are coming a bit slower.

 

[evsj]

If it helps, a friend bought her first horse, a 14 year old P2P last year and she is quite a novice rider. He has never been anything but a gent for her although he is a bit strong going round a SJ course! However, he did his first ever dressage test yesterday and managed a fair 62% despite not been ridden into an outline of any form. Even though he is nearly 15 he has a lot more to offer, so depending on soundness and sanity, a 9 year old should still have plenty more to give.

 

[vicijp]

I have never read such a load of crap in my life.

 

[claire1976]

Yeah, I'm starting to think this is all a bit bizarre!!
My sister had now decided to back out of the sale, seems she is not convinced on the lack of history on this horse and too many alarm bells. Why is she selling him so cheap (making a loss actually)???
Feel sorry for the horse but I suspect he is not all they say he is.

 

[guisbrogal]

I knew nothing about P2P horses when i bought Ellie and had no idea that she had ever done it. When I found out her past it explained a lot

She is really sensible in that she rarely spooks at anything (well only small logs

). She is 100% in traffic.

However she still thinks that cantering in a group means 'race'. She will canter beautifully at the front or the back of the group only speeding up if I ask her and she will listen if I check her, but if anyone tries to move positions and go past her....woe betide!

Its hold on and remember to breathe cause you have no say at all

I wouldn't swop her for the world